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	<title>Comments on: Politics</title>
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	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: notthisgirl</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3442</link>
		<dc:creator>notthisgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3442</guid>
		<description>Timothy:  If the election is such a *lock* for Kerry - why should you care what Rove might be planning.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy:  If the election is such a *lock* for Kerry &#8211; why should you care what Rove might be planning.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3441</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3441</guid>
		<description>Dave:  Some people take it more seriously than I do.  As I do not want elected office, it isn&#039;t a big deal to me.  People there also use it as the place to meet people and build a support network for their  candidacy for an elected or appointed office.  Yes, there are campaigns for appointed office - the appointer will have a number of people angling for the position, getting endorsements, etc.  You can talk to and plan with a large number of people quickly at a convention because they are all in one spot.  So conventions may not actually nominate the parties&#039; headlining act, they actually fulfill a large number of other functions for the parties.  I have only been to state conventions, not a national one (I am nowhere near active enough to be sent as a delegate to a national convention) but a lot does go on, with some actual nomination fights for some offices (this is at the state level).&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;It is fun - pep rally, campaign central, grip-and-grab fest, party, etc.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave:  Some people take it more seriously than I do.  As I do not want elected office, it isn&#8217;t a big deal to me.  People there also use it as the place to meet people and build a support network for their  candidacy for an elected or appointed office.  Yes, there are campaigns for appointed office &#8211; the appointer will have a number of people angling for the position, getting endorsements, etc.  You can talk to and plan with a large number of people quickly at a convention because they are all in one spot.  So conventions may not actually nominate the parties&#8217; headlining act, they actually fulfill a large number of other functions for the parties.  I have only been to state conventions, not a national one (I am nowhere near active enough to be sent as a delegate to a national convention) but a lot does go on, with some actual nomination fights for some offices (this is at the state level).</p>
<p>It is fun &#8211; pep rally, campaign central, grip-and-grab fest, party, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Snyder</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3440</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Snyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2004 01:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3440</guid>
		<description>When John Kerry wins this election, I can&#039;t wait to see the painful disappointment in all my disbelieving conservative friends.  The crow will be piled high in November so get ready to take a bite.  I only wonder what kind of right-wing conspiracy plan the Rove nutjobs have cooked up...this is going to be an interesting election year.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When John Kerry wins this election, I can&#8217;t wait to see the painful disappointment in all my disbelieving conservative friends.  The crow will be piled high in November so get ready to take a bite.  I only wonder what kind of right-wing conspiracy plan the Rove nutjobs have cooked up&#8230;this is going to be an interesting election year.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3439</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2004 00:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3439</guid>
		<description>Mike - sounds like a fandom &#039;Con (a Convention of a Different Color, so to speak).
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike &#8211; sounds like a fandom &#8216;Con (a Convention of a Different Color, so to speak).</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Malcolm Anderson</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3438</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Malcolm Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2004 22:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3438</guid>
		<description>Dean wrote:&lt;BR /&gt;&quot;It is entirely and completely possible that in the next few decades the Democrats will become the 2nd Amendment party.&quot;&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;If that ever happens, I&#039;ll be a Democrat.  Until then...&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;&quot;Still in one sense I&#039;ll give you this: the Democrats have always, always defined themselves mostly by collecting a vast collection of various small interests and gluing them together in a sometimes-awkward coalition. The Republicans have usually taken strong stances on a handful of principles, and stuck to those come hell or high water. That does seem the hard kernel of a difference between &#039;em.&quot;&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;That pinpoints exactly what is wrong about the Democrats and the Left generally, and what is right about the Republicans and the Right.  I&#039;m Independent, but at least the Republicans have some semblance of a philosophy, contradictory as it is.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean wrote:<br />
<br />&#8220;It is entirely and completely possible that in the next few decades the Democrats will become the 2nd Amendment party.&#8221;</p>
<p>If that ever happens, I&#8217;ll be a Democrat.  Until then&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Still in one sense I&#8217;ll give you this: the Democrats have always, always defined themselves mostly by collecting a vast collection of various small interests and gluing them together in a sometimes-awkward coalition. The Republicans have usually taken strong stances on a handful of principles, and stuck to those come hell or high water. That does seem the hard kernel of a difference between &#8216;em.&#8221;</p>
<p>That pinpoints exactly what is wrong about the Democrats and the Left generally, and what is right about the Republicans and the Right.  I&#8217;m Independent, but at least the Republicans have some semblance of a philosophy, contradictory as it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3437</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3437</guid>
		<description>Mrs. Du Toit:  For those who like politics as a sport, conventions are like following your team to the play-offs.  They are reunions.  They are parties (in the fun sense).  They are where you meet others you haven&#039;t seen in a long time.  You listen to boring speeches and yell yourself silly over them because that&#039;s what you do.  You scarf down free food and look to find who has a hospitality suite so you can get free drinks (and sometimes overstay your welcome and get tossed out).  (True Story!)  You see who has the best CFS (Cool Free Shit).  You try to convince others that your particular hobby horse of an interest is something they too ought to support.  And you make snarky comments to your friends about the wierdos these events do attract.  &lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Eventually you stumble back into the daylight wondering if your liver will ever recover, where you parked your car, and if you actually signed up for all those grassroots activities you fear you did (they should not have sign-up lists in the hospitality suites).  &lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Then its back to work like you were a normal person.  Or something.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs. Du Toit:  For those who like politics as a sport, conventions are like following your team to the play-offs.  They are reunions.  They are parties (in the fun sense).  They are where you meet others you haven&#8217;t seen in a long time.  You listen to boring speeches and yell yourself silly over them because that&#8217;s what you do.  You scarf down free food and look to find who has a hospitality suite so you can get free drinks (and sometimes overstay your welcome and get tossed out).  (True Story!)  You see who has the best CFS (Cool Free Shit).  You try to convince others that your particular hobby horse of an interest is something they too ought to support.  And you make snarky comments to your friends about the wierdos these events do attract.  </p>
<p>Eventually you stumble back into the daylight wondering if your liver will ever recover, where you parked your car, and if you actually signed up for all those grassroots activities you fear you did (they should not have sign-up lists in the hospitality suites).  </p>
<p>Then its back to work like you were a normal person.  Or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3436</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2004 19:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3436</guid>
		<description>I have an answer for you, Connie. Most people won&#039;t get it, but I&#039;m writing it now. I&#039;ll post it as a main article.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;You&#039;ll get it, though many people won&#039;t.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have an answer for you, Connie. Most people won&#8217;t get it, but I&#8217;m writing it now. I&#8217;ll post it as a main article.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll get it, though many people won&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs. du Toit</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3435</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. du Toit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2004 17:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3435</guid>
		<description>Without coming off as too personal, your last paragraph really helped me to understand how you view these things and why you sort of like these conventions.  As opposed to someone like me who hates them.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Unless the race has been close and the convention determines who the candidate will actually be for that party, I see these conventions as little more than an annoyance and a circus side show.  It&#039;s all fluff and no substance.  (And I hate fluff and no substance.)&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;But you actually listen to the speeches and determine which candidate you will vote for, based on their speeches and their &quot;ideas&quot;?&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;That&#039;s really interesting.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;It would never occur to me to do that.  It never occurred to me that other people do that.  I knew that there were changes in the poll numbers after these things, but I could never figure out why (for people who follow politics and government).  I don&#039;t base my choice on what they say or how well written or delivered their speeches.  The speeches are valuable to me only as a method of determining how much of a liar they are (or aren&#039;t) by comparing what they say they want to do to what they&#039;ve done in the past.  I vote based on their record and nothing else. If the disconnect is huge then you know the candidate is devoid of character.  Nothing but their record is an accurate indicator of what they WILL do.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without coming off as too personal, your last paragraph really helped me to understand how you view these things and why you sort of like these conventions.  As opposed to someone like me who hates them.</p>
<p>Unless the race has been close and the convention determines who the candidate will actually be for that party, I see these conventions as little more than an annoyance and a circus side show.  It&#8217;s all fluff and no substance.  (And I hate fluff and no substance.)</p>
<p>But you actually listen to the speeches and determine which candidate you will vote for, based on their speeches and their &#8220;ideas&#8221;?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s really interesting.</p>
<p>It would never occur to me to do that.  It never occurred to me that other people do that.  I knew that there were changes in the poll numbers after these things, but I could never figure out why (for people who follow politics and government).  I don&#8217;t base my choice on what they say or how well written or delivered their speeches.  The speeches are valuable to me only as a method of determining how much of a liar they are (or aren&#8217;t) by comparing what they say they want to do to what they&#8217;ve done in the past.  I vote based on their record and nothing else. If the disconnect is huge then you know the candidate is devoid of character.  Nothing but their record is an accurate indicator of what they WILL do.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3434</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3434</guid>
		<description>Mike: Well said.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike: Well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3433</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2004 16:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2004/07/27/politics/#comment-3433</guid>
		<description>Black Republican: You make a good point. Almost an &quot;eloquent&quot; point (joke, joke, please, I couldn&#039;t help myself!).  Although I must say the historic move of segregationists in the South from the Democrats to the Republicans has really always been terribly exaggerated. When you look at the actual numbers they were pretty damned small, and a number of Republicans who were never segregationists got tarred with that stigma for no good reason. You know, people like to say when Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act he said he&#039;d just given the South to the Republicans for the next several decades, but no one likes to remember that he said it because &lt;i&gt;most blacks in the South were Republicans at that time&lt;/i&gt;, so he had just guaranteed (in his mind) a victory for Republicans in areas where much of their base (blacks) was now finally guaranteed a vote.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Tarring either party with the segregationist past is just not appropriate. You know, Bull Connor&#039;s dead. Let him be dead.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Since I&#039;m sticking up for the Republicans though now let me stick up for Democrats: historically their reputation as the Dove party&#039;s also not really right. Harry Truman and Franklin Roosevelt were not pussies. John F. Kennedy hated communists his whole life and gave us an even bigger military buildup than Ronald Reagan did. And for all his reputation for being a wimp, Jimmy Carter actually threatened to use nuclear weapons if the Soviets tried to expand further than Afghanistan, making him so far as I know the only President to ever openly make such a threat to the Soviets. (Reagan&#039;s &quot;the bombs begin dropping in 5 minutes&quot; joke doesn&#039;t count.) The Scoop Jackson Democrats were no pushovers either.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Still in one sense I&#039;ll give you this: the Democrats have always, always defined themselves mostly by collecting a vast collection of various small interests and gluing them together in a sometimes-awkward coalition. The Republicans have usually taken strong stances on a handful of principles, and stuck to those come hell or high water. That does seem the hard kernel of a difference between &#039;em.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Black Republican: You make a good point. Almost an &#8220;eloquent&#8221; point (joke, joke, please, I couldn&#8217;t help myself!).  Although I must say the historic move of segregationists in the South from the Democrats to the Republicans has really always been terribly exaggerated. When you look at the actual numbers they were pretty damned small, and a number of Republicans who were never segregationists got tarred with that stigma for no good reason. You know, people like to say when Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act he said he&#8217;d just given the South to the Republicans for the next several decades, but no one likes to remember that he said it because <i>most blacks in the South were Republicans at that time</i>, so he had just guaranteed (in his mind) a victory for Republicans in areas where much of their base (blacks) was now finally guaranteed a vote.</p>
<p>Tarring either party with the segregationist past is just not appropriate. You know, Bull Connor&#8217;s dead. Let him be dead.</p>
<p>Since I&#8217;m sticking up for the Republicans though now let me stick up for Democrats: historically their reputation as the Dove party&#8217;s also not really right. Harry Truman and Franklin Roosevelt were not pussies. John F. Kennedy hated communists his whole life and gave us an even bigger military buildup than Ronald Reagan did. And for all his reputation for being a wimp, Jimmy Carter actually threatened to use nuclear weapons if the Soviets tried to expand further than Afghanistan, making him so far as I know the only President to ever openly make such a threat to the Soviets. (Reagan&#8217;s &#8220;the bombs begin dropping in 5 minutes&#8221; joke doesn&#8217;t count.) The Scoop Jackson Democrats were no pushovers either.</p>
<p>Still in one sense I&#8217;ll give you this: the Democrats have always, always defined themselves mostly by collecting a vast collection of various small interests and gluing them together in a sometimes-awkward coalition. The Republicans have usually taken strong stances on a handful of principles, and stuck to those come hell or high water. That does seem the hard kernel of a difference between &#8216;em.</p>
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