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	<title>Comments on: Domestic Violence</title>
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	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15519</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15519</guid>
		<description>And no, by the way, I don&#039;t think that if you&#039;ve ever done one of the above it makes you a &quot;child abuser,&quot; so long as after it happened you recognized that you went too far. We&#039;re only human after all.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;The whole point of this is not to indict parents, or women. And yes, we men need to recognize that we&#039;re bigger and stronger and need to be careful about that. &lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;What we need to dispel is the cultural stereotypes. Women are every bit as prone to violence as men are, and these days the culture tends to view violent women as funny or as innocent victims. We need to stop that crap. It&#039;s not funny and it&#039;s not acceptable.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;&quot;She&#039;s just a girl&quot; is not a defense.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Funny thing is, at one time this would have been considered the feminist viewpoint. I&#039;d argue that it still is.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And no, by the way, I don&#8217;t think that if you&#8217;ve ever done one of the above it makes you a &#8220;child abuser,&#8221; so long as after it happened you recognized that you went too far. We&#8217;re only human after all.</p>
<p>The whole point of this is not to indict parents, or women. And yes, we men need to recognize that we&#8217;re bigger and stronger and need to be careful about that. </p>
<p>What we need to dispel is the cultural stereotypes. Women are every bit as prone to violence as men are, and these days the culture tends to view violent women as funny or as innocent victims. We need to stop that crap. It&#8217;s not funny and it&#8217;s not acceptable.</p>
<p>&#8220;She&#8217;s just a girl&#8221; is not a defense.</p>
<p>Funny thing is, at one time this would have been considered the feminist viewpoint. I&#8217;d argue that it still is.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15518</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15518</guid>
		<description>Linda: I don&#039;t think that spanking, most of the time, is child abuse. In fact I think it&#039;s sometimes necessary. Sometimes inflicting pain is the only way to get the message through. Positive reinforcement isn&#039;t always enough.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;From my own perspective, my oldest is 9 and I&#039;ve spanked him a handful of times in his entire life. Once, it was too much and I regretted it, but the message got through. My youngest is 2 and I&#039;ve slapped his hand a couple of times.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Punching, kicking, scratching, burning with a cigarette, or spanking enough to leave welts--that&#039;s child abuse in my view.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda: I don&#8217;t think that spanking, most of the time, is child abuse. In fact I think it&#8217;s sometimes necessary. Sometimes inflicting pain is the only way to get the message through. Positive reinforcement isn&#8217;t always enough.</p>
<p>From my own perspective, my oldest is 9 and I&#8217;ve spanked him a handful of times in his entire life. Once, it was too much and I regretted it, but the message got through. My youngest is 2 and I&#8217;ve slapped his hand a couple of times.</p>
<p>Punching, kicking, scratching, burning with a cigarette, or spanking enough to leave welts&#8211;that&#8217;s child abuse in my view.</p>
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		<title>By: Trudy W. Schuett</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15517</link>
		<dc:creator>Trudy W. Schuett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15517</guid>
		<description>RE: that link I mentioned earlier:&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;The 2005 document put out by the NCADV with federal funding to suggest themes for Domestic Violence Awareness Month is entitled, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vawnet.org/DomesticViolence/PreventionAndEducation/Campaigns/DVAP/ActionForSocialChange.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Action for Social Change&lt;/a&gt;. For 111 pages, this PDF goes on about things like the language used to talk about the issues, finding new groups of victims to claim, and items such as graphic diagrams of the special ways handicapped and elderly women, even babies are victimized. There are sources cited that once again blame men and the â€œpatriarchyâ€ for the continuing oppression of women. &lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;One article is entitled, &lt;i&gt;Social Change to End Violence Against Women (or to Reclaim Womenâ€™s Sovereignty)&lt;/i&gt; The title says it all. This is the first time weâ€™ve seen a publicly-available document that alludes to the truth behind this movement.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: that link I mentioned earlier:</p>
<p>The 2005 document put out by the NCADV with federal funding to suggest themes for Domestic Violence Awareness Month is entitled, <a href="http://www.vawnet.org/DomesticViolence/PreventionAndEducation/Campaigns/DVAP/ActionForSocialChange.pdf" rel="nofollow">Action for Social Change</a>. For 111 pages, this PDF goes on about things like the language used to talk about the issues, finding new groups of victims to claim, and items such as graphic diagrams of the special ways handicapped and elderly women, even babies are victimized. There are sources cited that once again blame men and the â€œpatriarchyâ€ for the continuing oppression of women. </p>
<p>One article is entitled, <i>Social Change to End Violence Against Women (or to Reclaim Womenâ€™s Sovereignty)</i> The title says it all. This is the first time weâ€™ve seen a publicly-available document that alludes to the truth behind this movement.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Peters</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15516</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 06:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15516</guid>
		<description>On a side track, I&#039;m curious to know your opinions of spanking? Also, and I am reading the links, but perhaps through your analysis you already know -- how is violence against children defined and measured? Is spanking included? If not, at what point does corporal punishment cross into violence? I know where I draw that line for myself, but where do the researchers?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a side track, I&#8217;m curious to know your opinions of spanking? Also, and I am reading the links, but perhaps through your analysis you already know &#8212; how is violence against children defined and measured? Is spanking included? If not, at what point does corporal punishment cross into violence? I know where I draw that line for myself, but where do the researchers?</p>
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		<title>By: MaryJ</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15515</link>
		<dc:creator>MaryJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 05:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15515</guid>
		<description>I know the men get the blame and I have noticed that popular word is...MEN!&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;It just isn&#039;t right Dean.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know the men get the blame and I have noticed that popular word is&#8230;MEN!</p>
<p>It just isn&#8217;t right Dean.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15514</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 02:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15514</guid>
		<description>According to multiple sources (again, click the many links I provided above), the vast majority of people experienced their first incidence of violence at the hands of their mothers.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Does that make mothers bad? No it certaintly does not. It makes them adults capable of making adult decisions. Including, sometimes, bad decisions. And sometimes, correct decisions.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;I just grow tired of the conspiring between liberals and conservatives to deny all of this. &lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Women commit the vast majority of violent child abuse. Deal with it. It&#039;s reality.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to multiple sources (again, click the many links I provided above), the vast majority of people experienced their first incidence of violence at the hands of their mothers.</p>
<p>Does that make mothers bad? No it certaintly does not. It makes them adults capable of making adult decisions. Including, sometimes, bad decisions. And sometimes, correct decisions.</p>
<p>I just grow tired of the conspiring between liberals and conservatives to deny all of this. </p>
<p>Women commit the vast majority of violent child abuse. Deal with it. It&#8217;s reality.</p>
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		<title>By: HokiePundit (RDB) W&#38;M 0L</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15513</link>
		<dc:creator>HokiePundit (RDB) W&#38;M 0L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 02:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15513</guid>
		<description>If you think about our definition of violence and the  difference between men and women (in general) in terms of strength, this actually makes sense.  As men are nearly always stronger, they&#039;re more intimidating.  For instance, it may be that one spanking is enough to convince the child that it&#039;s not in their best interest to keep trying to break the rules, but they may feel that whatever their mom dishes out they can take.  I know when I was little a spanking from my mom was no big deal but one from my dad was something to be feared (and he only used his hand on my rear end).  Similarly, because men tend to be stronger, they can often successfully restrain children, whereas women may need to resort to violence in an effort to keep their children where she wants them.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you think about our definition of violence and the  difference between men and women (in general) in terms of strength, this actually makes sense.  As men are nearly always stronger, they&#8217;re more intimidating.  For instance, it may be that one spanking is enough to convince the child that it&#8217;s not in their best interest to keep trying to break the rules, but they may feel that whatever their mom dishes out they can take.  I know when I was little a spanking from my mom was no big deal but one from my dad was something to be feared (and he only used his hand on my rear end).  Similarly, because men tend to be stronger, they can often successfully restrain children, whereas women may need to resort to violence in an effort to keep their children where she wants them.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15512</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15512</guid>
		<description>And how infantalizing of women is it, by the way, to deny these facts?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how infantalizing of women is it, by the way, to deny these facts?</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15511</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15511</guid>
		<description>By the way, if it helps:&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Most child sexual abuse is at the hands of men. It just is.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Violent child abuse, on the other hand? Including murder of children? Mostly at the hands of women.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Make of it what you will. You won&#039;t see it on the nightly news.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, if it helps:</p>
<p>Most child sexual abuse is at the hands of men. It just is.</p>
<p>Violent child abuse, on the other hand? Including murder of children? Mostly at the hands of women.</p>
<p>Make of it what you will. You won&#8217;t see it on the nightly news.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15510</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesma.nexcess.net/2007/06/30/domestic-violence/#comment-15510</guid>
		<description>MaryJ: The standard narrative says that the violence is the fault of the men. You haven&#039;t noticed?&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Maggie: Well I&#039;ve linked multiple sources. Have you read them? Let me quote one again:&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;i&gt;According to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data Systemâ€™s most current report, Child Maltreatment 2005, of the approximately 899,000 child abuse and neglect victims in 2005, the largest percentage of perpetrators (79.4 percent) were parents, including birth parents, adoptive parents, and stepparents. Other relatives accounted for an additional 6.8 percent, residential staff for 0 .2 percent, and daycare providers for 0.6 percent. Unmarried partners of parents accounted for 3.8 percent of perpetrators while foster parent accounted for 0.5 percent of perpetrators. &lt;BR /&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Let me repeat: unmarried partners of parents accounted for 3.8 percent. And 79.4% are the parents. Which means that step-parents/live-in boyfriends and girlfriends are mostly not the problem. But parents are.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;And daycare providers and live-in nannies and such are statistically very small contributors.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;So who are the major contributors, given that women are the majority by a 20-point statistical margin?&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;You know, I get tired of being told that men are bigger than women, and have things like testosterone and testicles and whatnot, by people who refuse to acknowledge that women are bigger than children. Especially when study after study demonstrates that women are every bit as violent as men. Just not as likely to do injury to the men since the men are bigger and stronger than the women. But way likely to be able to whip the shit out of a little boy or girl.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;The women are bigger and stronger than the children most of the time.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;Most violent child abuse is committed by women. This has been known to social scientists for more than 30 years. Make of it what you will.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.canadiancrc.com/articles/David_McCrae_Women_Forgotten_Murderers_01FEB04.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Read this&lt;/a&gt;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MaryJ: The standard narrative says that the violence is the fault of the men. You haven&#8217;t noticed?</p>
<p>Maggie: Well I&#8217;ve linked multiple sources. Have you read them? Let me quote one again:</p>
<p><i>According to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data Systemâ€™s most current report, Child Maltreatment 2005, of the approximately 899,000 child abuse and neglect victims in 2005, the largest percentage of perpetrators (79.4 percent) were parents, including birth parents, adoptive parents, and stepparents. Other relatives accounted for an additional 6.8 percent, residential staff for 0 .2 percent, and daycare providers for 0.6 percent. Unmarried partners of parents accounted for 3.8 percent of perpetrators while foster parent accounted for 0.5 percent of perpetrators.<br />
<br /></i></p>
<p>Let me repeat: unmarried partners of parents accounted for 3.8 percent. And 79.4% are the parents. Which means that step-parents/live-in boyfriends and girlfriends are mostly not the problem. But parents are.</p>
<p>And daycare providers and live-in nannies and such are statistically very small contributors.</p>
<p>So who are the major contributors, given that women are the majority by a 20-point statistical margin?</p>
<p>You know, I get tired of being told that men are bigger than women, and have things like testosterone and testicles and whatnot, by people who refuse to acknowledge that women are bigger than children. Especially when study after study demonstrates that women are every bit as violent as men. Just not as likely to do injury to the men since the men are bigger and stronger than the women. But way likely to be able to whip the shit out of a little boy or girl.</p>
<p>The women are bigger and stronger than the children most of the time.</p>
<p>Most violent child abuse is committed by women. This has been known to social scientists for more than 30 years. Make of it what you will.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canadiancrc.com/articles/David_McCrae_Women_Forgotten_Murderers_01FEB04.htm" rel="nofollow">Read this</a>.</p>
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