I remember seeing Jihad in America a long time ago, but IIRC there’s nothing in that that even remotely suggests that the number of Islamists is large, especially when compared with regular muslims. Not that we should ignore the issue, of course not. But there’s no need to go off the deep end about it.

As to metrics, neither you nor I have them. I refer you to the work of Steve Emerson for why I might have made the better estimate of the situation.

As for the US being a deeply religous country, maybe yes and maybe no. But its governing, legal, educational and media elites are indifferent at best and frequently hostile at worst to the Judeo Christian tradition that the nation was built from. The impact is that religion for most in this country is a mile wide and an inch thick.

Also, when there is too much lesiure and luxury, but not enough spirutual development and discipline, people tend to go crazy and seek to destroy themselves and others. I believe that dynamic is working in this country.

i think we must just be too far apart on this.

from my standpoint, the u.s. is a deeply religious country, and i don’t see any reason why a devout, sincere muslim can’t be assimilated into the u.s. or why they would choose not to be? if you click through a couple links on the carnival of brass linkblog, you’ll see posts from plenty of assimilated but very devout muslims.

by what metric do you estimate that there is a large core of wholly unassimilated islamicists (to be distinguished from mainstream muslims, i hope?) in our mists?

“the reason that the american experience is not the european one vis a vis muslim immigration is that we are much better at assimilating even vast numbers of immigrants into our amorphous national culture, whereas in europe they remain second class citizens”

I believe that our ability to assimilate ideologically sincere and deeply religious Islamicists is zero. I agree that a decent society like this one can assimilate many Muslims, to one degree or another. But there will always be a hard core, and I estimate a large one, of those that can’t and won’t be assimilated because – they don’t want to be. I believe it is a weakness of our secular intellegencia that they can’t relate to this because of their secularism. And it is those people that I believe are slowly and surely , inch by inch, devotedly, laying the political and cultural groundwork for thier control of this country. Will they succeed? If we let them, yes they will. They have fertile ground here, becuase great segments of this society are alienated and/or apathetic and do not have a strong identity and a willingness to fight to preserve the values that built this country. In fact, significant and powerful segments of society are against those values and work against them. They will find themselves aiding and abetting the Islamicists, whether they realize it or not.

United we stand, but, I’m afraid, we are now severely divided.

you seem to be living in a nightmare born out of unreasonable fears. the reason that the american experience is not the european one vis a vis muslim immigration is that we are much better at assimilating even vast numbers of immigrants into our amorphous national culture, whereas in europe they remain second class citizens. and democrats are not attacking communications companies, they simply don’t want to give them total immunity in a program that has high potential for abuse.

maybe i’m asleep, but wake me up when the country passes a law aimed at appeasing islamists. until then i think i’ll have a wee bit more faith in our government.

all of which is beside the main point, which is that obama is no more or less likely to capitulate our country to, sympathize with (secretly or publicly), or in any other way give comfort to al qaeda than any other democrat. maybe that means you won’t vote democrat, and that’s okay.

zach.’s last blog post..Does he speak like an ordinary guy?

so in your opinion it is a plausible scenario that islamists get the upper hand in american politics? are you on drugs?? if you don’t see mainstream muslims denouncing terrorism then you are simply not looking. if you don’t like obama, that’s fine. you can not vote for him for whatever reason you choose. he has many tough questions to answer between now and a victory in november. the strength of his commitment to america, however, is not among them. not that such a question is out of bounds, but rather that it has already been answered.

zach.’s last blog post..Does he speak like an ordinary guy?

The chance we are taking by having him president isn’t vis a vis Al Queida. It is that his judgment, at the margin, might be skewed by a conscious or unconscious indeification with Muslims. And this may lead to poor decision making. For example, his “let’s hold a conference and talk to all the rabid Muslim leaders that want to destroy us” idea.

Also, I want a President who considers himself a proud (and I mean was always proud, not just lately proud) American, who loves American deep in his bones. A la Ronald Regan. Not a la Michelle Obama. Is Barak that kind? Why should I think so. Especially since all he talks about is “change”. So American now is bad?

Regarding Muslims in general, (which Obama does not say he is anyway), why choose from among them, when there is a reasonable doubt as to how identified any Muslim individual is with America, rather than a person whose religion is not part of a conflict with America? Until I see “mainstream” Muslims doing something highly visible to counter the impression that the Islamists make, I will always feel that should the Islamicsts gain the upper hand, they will find it just as easy to go along with them. Religion is a powerful thing.

Is my thinking fair? Sure. No one is owed the Presidency. They have to convice me.

After all of that, why should I take a risk for Obama? So he can fulfill his left wing agenda or his blah blah whatever empty campaign planks?

Bobby Jindal I am waiting for you?

I honestly wasn’t trying. If I misunderstood you, I apologize.

Does “denouncing and rejecting” Farrakhan count as “being a fan”?

I don’t understand what “chance” this is that you’re taking? The chance that Obama is a crypto-muslim or secretly supports AQ? As Dave said above, the AQ bit is truther territory, and even if he did secretly turn out to be a muslim, so f’ing what?

I wouldn’t vote for Ellison for President because I think he’d be a shitty president. It’s got nothing to do with him being Muslim.

zach.’s last blog post..The Added Benefit of Being True