Another point, fatalism is a deep root in Arab culture. It motivates people to favor any side that is seen as having momentum. To what extent is this fatalism shared by non-Arab Muslims in the third world? How will it make them respond to the tolerance shown to CAIR and the creeping Islamisation of Europe and eventually the US?

I believe that Dean’s presumption that the vast majority of Muslims are tolerant and want no quarrel with the West is simply that – a presumption. Backed up by no hard data. True, the vast majority are not currently militant. But I believe a case can be made that increased power and influence over Western cultures/societies may increase the proportion of radicals as well as emboldening them. In this manner the War on Terror may very well have a culture war component.

Some may question me and ask – why don’t I give non-militant Muslims the benefit of the doubt? Because I live by the motto: Regarding strangers – respect and suspect. Until the stranger has actually proven himself…

One thing that I will freely admit is that I do not feel compelled, as many seem to, to try to prove my non-Islamophobic credentials by becoming an apologist for Islamist behavior.

You do, however, feel compelled to mischaracterize the positions of others.

Those who claim that Islamist fascism is the biggest threat to world peace on this planet are correct. Those of you who argue otherwise are, in my opinion, either naive or ignorant.

Then it’s a good thing that, despite your mischaracterizations, no one here has argued otherwise.

“Radical Islam is dangerous and must be fought” and “The vast majority of Muslims are not radicals” and “Islamophobia offends non-radical Muslims and thus makes it harder to fight radical Islam” are all true statements, with no logical contradiction to be found among them.

I do believe that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and tolerant, and that the radical jihadis are a minority who are distorting the religion. IMO, it’s the violent jihadis who are attacking Islam, not those who report on it or even criticize them.

I think too many of the outrageous and brutal acts of the jihadis get swept under the rug, overlooked, and forgotten. Some of that is probably due to political correctness, and some is probably political. No doubt there are some folks in the US and abroad who don’t want to be reminded of the very real justifications for our wars.

And I suspect there are more than a few truly moderate and peace loving Muslims who don’t want to be reminded of the radical acts perpetrated in the name of their religion. But forgetting about it won’t make it go away.

So I stand by my original opinion on this film. I see nothing untruthful or dishonest about it. On the other hand, it is amateurish, with no original insights that I can see. But IMO, folks who attack it as anti-Islamic are just shooting the messenger.

I stand by my comments. My paraphrasing of Aziz was virtually word for word, I have no idea where Willow gets the idea that I claimed that I could not be racist or Islamophobic. I don’t even know where that’s coming from.

What I am saying is that this documentary has a legitimate perspective, the message is fair, although the delivery is heavy-handed and amateurish.

One thing that I will freely admit is that I do not feel compelled, as many seem to, to try to prove my non-Islamophobic credentials by becoming an apologist for Islamist behavior.

Those who claim that Islamist fascism is the biggest threat to world peace on this planet are correct. Those of you who argue otherwise are, in my opinion, either naive or ignorant. The facts are fairly obvious for anyone who cares to come to conclusions based on facts. To suggest that Holland’s national identity is threatened by an organized attempt to “Islamize” Holland is absolutely a fair point to make. And to point out that those who object to this become the targets of death threats or worse is also absolutely fair and accurate.

Europe is in real trouble over this. And it’s getting worse, not better.

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Perhaps those of us who are very much hawks in the War On Terror are disgusted with Islamophobic films like this precisely because they are irrational and harmful toward our allies in that struggle–the Muslim mainstream.

They make the Jihadis look like they are the real Muslims and all the others are fake. This is terribly depressing and terribly corrosive. That it’s also intellectually shallow and often intellectually dishonest should be equally disturbing.

It is not at all an evasion to point these things out, and it’s an intellectual cop-out to suggest that it’s a neutral moral equivalency. You really can use the Bible in much the same way that the Jihadis use the Koran, which is something too many so-called “critics” of Islam ignore, or even take umbrage with when you suggest it. Indeed, just pointing out the violent and oppressive parts of the Bible will get you labled as “attacking Christianity” and/or an anti-semite. How do I know? It’s happened to me repeatedly.

This discussion goes nowhere until some of you on the right start to admit to the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there is such a thing as irrational, ill-informed fear of Islam. Until you do, there’s no possibility of greater dialog here.

“As usual, umbrage and disgust is directed at those who point to the sacralising of terror by others, rather than those who actually make terror a matter of pious obligation.”

I think that’s an important point: Not so much the umbrage part, but the sacralising of terror part. Whether one likes it or not, these are things being done in the name of Islam. Its unfair and stupid but terrorists are doing exactly that, making a sacrament of death.

But both islamophobia and anti-islamophobia get to bore me after just so many retellings. Sort of like endless made-for-television movies about the holocaust, or how nasty we were over here when we put all those poor brave Indians in the reservations and made their kids learn English.

Maybe I really ought to be a little more sympathetic, but sheesh.. enough already. I’m sure the Moslems know how to defend themselves against some crazy comicbook publisher, without all the rest of America chirping like canaries.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI

Its good to see this all collected into one spot for posterities sake. Too much of this stuff does seem to be swept under the rug and quickly forgotten.

Of course, I can’t vouch for the accuracy of the subtitles or Koran verses. But if they’re correct, it’s a much more honest film than, say, Farenhiet 911.

That’s me saying that the movie fails to make a persuasive case. Is this my fault or the fault of the filmmaker? I am strictly critiquing the movie in my post.

Though, Dean and Willow have the larger issue spot on.

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