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	<title>Comments on: Indefensible</title>
	<atom:link href="http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: Mc Kiernan</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153351</link>
		<dc:creator>Mc Kiernan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153351</guid>
		<description>Lawyer  never  have problems with lies or lying except the ones  under oath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lawyer  never  have problems with lies or lying except the ones  under oath.</p>
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		<title>By: bcostin</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153338</link>
		<dc:creator>bcostin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153338</guid>
		<description>Hank&#039;s got a point. Bigger lies have been told for less gain. But there are two things that bother me a lot about this particular lie. 

First, it was clearly done to make Hillary look resolute, tough, and literally battle-hardened. There&#039;s no reason to lie about that unless it isn&#039;t true. Which it isn&#039;t. She&#039;s intimidated by McCain&#039;s undeniable advantage here and has no way of countering it save a lame fabrication.

And that&#039;s the second thing. It was sooo lame and so easily debunked.  I may have a grudging respect someone who can pull off a bald-face lie. I can even accept that politicians (especially Presidents) sometimes must lie to us as part of their jobs. As Sun Tzu said, &quot;All warfare is based on deception&quot;, and a Commander In Chief needs to be good at deception (or leave it to someone else who is.) Hillary has just shown that she&#039;s not very good at it. Much worse than her husband, for example.

&lt;em&gt;bcostin&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://bcostin.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/elephant-paints-self-portrait/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Elephant Paints Self Portrait&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hank&#8217;s got a point. Bigger lies have been told for less gain. But there are two things that bother me a lot about this particular lie. </p>
<p>First, it was clearly done to make Hillary look resolute, tough, and literally battle-hardened. There&#8217;s no reason to lie about that unless it isn&#8217;t true. Which it isn&#8217;t. She&#8217;s intimidated by McCain&#8217;s undeniable advantage here and has no way of countering it save a lame fabrication.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s the second thing. It was sooo lame and so easily debunked.  I may have a grudging respect someone who can pull off a bald-face lie. I can even accept that politicians (especially Presidents) sometimes must lie to us as part of their jobs. As Sun Tzu said, &#8220;All warfare is based on deception&#8221;, and a Commander In Chief needs to be good at deception (or leave it to someone else who is.) Hillary has just shown that she&#8217;s not very good at it. Much worse than her husband, for example.</p>
<p><em>bcostin&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://bcostin.wordpress.com/2008/03/29/elephant-paints-self-portrait/' rel="nofollow">Elephant Paints Self Portrait</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Hank Barnes</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153333</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 16:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153333</guid>
		<description>Look, I&#039;m not a big fan of Hillary either. But this is minor stuff, y&#039;all are carping on.

Within the next 7 months, I suspect McCain&#039;s gonna get caught in &quot;whopper&quot; of similar magnitude, let&#039;s see how indignant y&#039;all get. 

Last Word!

HankB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, I&#8217;m not a big fan of Hillary either. But this is minor stuff, y&#8217;all are carping on.</p>
<p>Within the next 7 months, I suspect McCain&#8217;s gonna get caught in &#8220;whopper&#8221; of similar magnitude, let&#8217;s see how indignant y&#8217;all get. </p>
<p>Last Word!</p>
<p>HankB</p>
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		<title>By: urthshu</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153323</link>
		<dc:creator>urthshu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153323</guid>
		<description>As for &#039;issues that matter to 300 million Americans&#039;, I&#039;ll just note that both Hillary&#039;s and Obama&#039;s camps aren&#039;t very concerned when confronted by their candidate&#039;s lies but ARE outraged when their relative lack of experience is brought up. I think we all still care about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for &#8216;issues that matter to 300 million Americans&#8217;, I&#8217;ll just note that both Hillary&#8217;s and Obama&#8217;s camps aren&#8217;t very concerned when confronted by their candidate&#8217;s lies but ARE outraged when their relative lack of experience is brought up. I think we all still care about that.</p>
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		<title>By: urthshu</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153321</link>
		<dc:creator>urthshu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 12:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153321</guid>
		<description>Hank - 
I don&#039;t believe the scrutiny is a bad development in the least. Either we&#039;ll wind up with solid candidates or we&#039;ll wind up with flawed, but acceptable candidates who&#039;ve been vetted by the American public. No one will be able to pull off a true cult of personality - of which, I think, Obama is the last gasp. The only way around it is to make political commentary outside the media elite illegal in some way, but I think  the net will always route around such interference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hank &#8211;<br />
I don&#8217;t believe the scrutiny is a bad development in the least. Either we&#8217;ll wind up with solid candidates or we&#8217;ll wind up with flawed, but acceptable candidates who&#8217;ve been vetted by the American public. No one will be able to pull off a true cult of personality &#8211; of which, I think, Obama is the last gasp. The only way around it is to make political commentary outside the media elite illegal in some way, but I think  the net will always route around such interference.</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153310</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153310</guid>
		<description>Hank:

Note, as with Dean, that I don&#039;t feel a need to insult you to debate with you. Again, I think that shows the relative strengths of our positions.

I say again that if you do not see the difference between someone making a pure political promise in order to get elected, and someone claiming to remember getting shot at by snipers in an airport, you&#039;ve got a lot of gall insulting my intelligence.

Just in case you haven&#039;t noticed, the very uproar at Hillary&#039;s whopper is powerful evidence that supports my contention that Hillary&#039;s lie was &lt;i&gt;qualitatively&lt;/i&gt; different than the lies you are talking about. Obama, Hillary and probably even McCain are making the traditional lies you are describing every single day on this campaign, and they are getting the same treatment they always have. Hillary&#039;s lie was &lt;b&gt;different&lt;/b&gt; Hank, and that&#039;s why it is getting &lt;b&gt;different&lt;/b&gt; treatment.

Perhaps when your debate skills mature you will learn to debate with reason and facts instead of insults and attacks. ;)

&lt;em&gt;CosmicConservative&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=3578&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;What I think of UFOs&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hank:</p>
<p>Note, as with Dean, that I don&#8217;t feel a need to insult you to debate with you. Again, I think that shows the relative strengths of our positions.</p>
<p>I say again that if you do not see the difference between someone making a pure political promise in order to get elected, and someone claiming to remember getting shot at by snipers in an airport, you&#8217;ve got a lot of gall insulting my intelligence.</p>
<p>Just in case you haven&#8217;t noticed, the very uproar at Hillary&#8217;s whopper is powerful evidence that supports my contention that Hillary&#8217;s lie was <i>qualitatively</i> different than the lies you are talking about. Obama, Hillary and probably even McCain are making the traditional lies you are describing every single day on this campaign, and they are getting the same treatment they always have. Hillary&#8217;s lie was <b>different</b> Hank, and that&#8217;s why it is getting <b>different</b> treatment.</p>
<p>Perhaps when your debate skills mature you will learn to debate with reason and facts instead of insults and attacks. ;)</p>
<p><em>CosmicConservative&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=3578' rel="nofollow">What I think of UFOs</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Hank Barnes</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153307</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153307</guid>
		<description>Cosmic Con!

Nah, you&#039;re clueless on this one. I can document 20-25 substantive lies/embellishments/exaggerations by some of our best candidates and best presidents.

No, this doesn&#039;t excuse Hillary&#039;s whopper. But excessive zeal to seize on a whopper(as minimal as this one)  ain&#039;t impressive either.

Call me after the SAT&#039;s -- I&#039;ll buy you a beer if they card you:)


Best,

Hankie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cosmic Con!</p>
<p>Nah, you&#8217;re clueless on this one. I can document 20-25 substantive lies/embellishments/exaggerations by some of our best candidates and best presidents.</p>
<p>No, this doesn&#8217;t excuse Hillary&#8217;s whopper. But excessive zeal to seize on a whopper(as minimal as this one)  ain&#8217;t impressive either.</p>
<p>Call me after the SAT&#8217;s &#8212; I&#8217;ll buy you a beer if they card you:)</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Hankie</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153293</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 01:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153293</guid>
		<description>willem:

What &quot;Republicans&quot; have &quot;said it&quot; and what have they said?

&lt;em&gt;CosmicConservative&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=3575&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Obama&#039;s Surrender day&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>willem:</p>
<p>What &#8220;Republicans&#8221; have &#8220;said it&#8221; and what have they said?</p>
<p><em>CosmicConservative&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=3575' rel="nofollow">Obama&#8217;s Surrender day</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153292</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 01:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153292</guid>
		<description>Hank: You must be kidding.

FDR making a campaign promise he desperately HOPED he could keep to not go to war is not &quot;lying&quot; in anything like the same sense as &quot;we dodged sniper bullets as we rushed to the car.&quot; Are you seriously trying to compare the two? Are you completely unaware of the difference between a political statement and a freaking PERSONAL MEMORY OF LIFE AND DEATH DANGER? Sheesh.

Yes there has been a willingness in this country to accept partisan political opportunism in its candidates, but to claim to have been shot at by foreign forces while dodging serpentine from the plane to waiting cars?

You are comparing apples to orangutans.

&lt;em&gt;CosmicConservative&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=3575&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Obama&#039;s Surrender day&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hank: You must be kidding.</p>
<p>FDR making a campaign promise he desperately HOPED he could keep to not go to war is not &#8220;lying&#8221; in anything like the same sense as &#8220;we dodged sniper bullets as we rushed to the car.&#8221; Are you seriously trying to compare the two? Are you completely unaware of the difference between a political statement and a freaking PERSONAL MEMORY OF LIFE AND DEATH DANGER? Sheesh.</p>
<p>Yes there has been a willingness in this country to accept partisan political opportunism in its candidates, but to claim to have been shot at by foreign forces while dodging serpentine from the plane to waiting cars?</p>
<p>You are comparing apples to orangutans.</p>
<p><em>CosmicConservative&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=3575' rel="nofollow">Obama&#8217;s Surrender day</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: willem</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153288</link>
		<dc:creator>willem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/03/31/indefensible/#comment-153288</guid>
		<description>Oh how I c-r-i-n-g-e when I watch this. The guilty knowledge of her bending the truth is all over her when she starts the spin on camera; I think it&#039;s unmistakable in her features and manner. 

On one hand I actually feel empathy, and on the other, the reptilian entitlement behind the lie chills me to the bone. These people are so craven; insipid; hollow. Yikes!!

Others far wiser than me can go on about the psychopathology buried in this little episode. What struck me was how Obama-like it was. There are only three things really different about Obama and Hillary -- height, girth and genitalia. They&#039;re just a pair of Kool Aid kids from the social laboratory of Saul Alinsky.

What bugs me most: Somebody&#039;s running for POTUS and they don&#039;t have any meaningful experience, so they lie, and it&#039;s ok, because if Republicans can say it then we need to claim it too. 

And then comes what may well be a Kos-poster masquerading as a &quot;cosmic conservative.&quot; Dude.  Barnes and Dean deserve better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh how I c-r-i-n-g-e when I watch this. The guilty knowledge of her bending the truth is all over her when she starts the spin on camera; I think it&#8217;s unmistakable in her features and manner. </p>
<p>On one hand I actually feel empathy, and on the other, the reptilian entitlement behind the lie chills me to the bone. These people are so craven; insipid; hollow. Yikes!!</p>
<p>Others far wiser than me can go on about the psychopathology buried in this little episode. What struck me was how Obama-like it was. There are only three things really different about Obama and Hillary &#8212; height, girth and genitalia. They&#8217;re just a pair of Kool Aid kids from the social laboratory of Saul Alinsky.</p>
<p>What bugs me most: Somebody&#8217;s running for POTUS and they don&#8217;t have any meaningful experience, so they lie, and it&#8217;s ok, because if Republicans can say it then we need to claim it too. </p>
<p>And then comes what may well be a Kos-poster masquerading as a &#8220;cosmic conservative.&#8221; Dude.  Barnes and Dean deserve better.</p>
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