As it is news related, I posted my thoughts at the place where everybody can summarize the news.
Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.
UserOnline
Users: Celia Farber, 12 Guests, 3 BotsCategories
Discussion
- mikeca on The Shirley Charade
- Dean Esmay on Literary Bleg
- Dean Esmay on Boundaries and Us
- Dean Esmay on Boundaries and Us
- Connie Howard on Let’s Kill Dean! (Or, Who Has More Talent, You Or The Misogynist Coward?)
- Tom DeGisi on Let’s Kill Dean! (Or, Who Has More Talent, You Or The Misogynist Coward?)
- Tom DeGisi on The Shirley Charade
- BSE on Let’s Kill Dean! (Or, Who Has More Talent, You Or The Misogynist Coward?)
- Nicola Welch on The Shirley Charade
- mikeca on The Shirley Charade
-
Recent Posts
Contributing Editors
Dean Esmay - Editor-In-Chief
Aziz Poonawalla
Dave Price
Dave Schuler
Dean
Celia Farber
Eric Rall
Glenn Sacks
J.A. Eddy
Jerry Kindall
Michael J. Totten
Naftali
Tyrone Steels II
Ron Coleman
Rudy Rummel
Scott Kirwin
Kevin D.
Shay
Trudy W. Schuett
G. Willow WilsonArchives
Day by Day
Support Dean’s World
-
Get smart with the Thesis WordPress Theme from DIYthemes.
{ 9 comments }
If I’m reading the story right, calling this a “spanking ban” is pretty badly inaccurate. It is a ban on hitting a child under three years old in the face or head. I can’t say I have any real objection to that concept, although legislating it seems unnecessary. I would think child abuse laws already would deal with any such abuse, and I’d hate for a parent to lose their child due to an intemperate slap that does no actual damage. This sort of smacks of “zero tolerance” legislation to me.
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Hillary fading fast?
>limiting my ability to educate
If spanking were a useful educational tool then why do we not ask our driving instructors to spank us when we make a driving error?
In reality all learning takes place by conjecture and criticism of conjectures. It’s not enhanced by punishment. The fear that punishment often creates rather has the opposing effect of shutting down rational thought.
Anyone who isn’t able take these arguments seriously: please don’t feel that you need to be spanked.
Frankly Thomas, we thankfully have not arrived at the point where I have to argue this out with you. The currently sane state of the conventional wisdom regarding this position is inarguable.
It’s simply an issue of culture war and you are an enemy.
Now you have the last word.
Thomas:
Naftali is very nice. Your assertion that learning is not enhanced by punishment pretty much flies in the face of all data on behavior modification. If you think punishment doesn’t help a person learn, you have never burned your finger on a stove.
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Hillary fading fast?
I admit that I have burnt my finger on a stove. However, the pain and suffering this caused did not help me to understand why it occurred or how to avoid it. Only ideas and explanations can do that.
Most parents would not hesitate to burn their hands in rescuing their child from a fire. So their behaviour has been modified in some ways and not in others. The difference is _knowledge_, including knowledge of right and wrong.
Most parents seem to think that this last kind of knowledge cannot be transmitted without the use of fear, threats and punishment. They are mistaken (thank goodness!)
Thomas:
Since you are presenting a position that is so obviously counter to all history, study and common sense, I can only assume that you are doing so for the purpose of stirring up controversy.
Here’s the deal, you are confusing “learning” with “understanding.” The two are not the same thing. Not even close.
I can learn that a hot stove burns my finger. I don’t NEED to understand how the stove got hot to learn that it burns. Nor do I need to understand physiology and biochemistry to feel the pain. All the “ideas and explanations” won’t give me anything but an intellectual understanding of the concept of “hot”. Until I actually burn myself I’m not going to learn that “hot” is something I want to avoid.
Your last paragraph about what “most parents seem to think” is quite revealing. How many parents have you interviewed? How many children do you have? Where did you perform this study? Can we see the results of it?
If burning your finger on a stove did not teach you that you can avoid such burns by not touching a hot stove, then that would explain a lot about your other positions on this subject.
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Hillary fading fast?
>Until I actually burn myself I’m not going to learn that “hot†is something I want to avoid.
It’s true that children will likely touch something hot and hurt themselves before they have developed a concept of hot. However it’s also likely that they will not receive a radiation burn before they have developed both some concept of ionising radiation and the desire to avoid it. So that argument fails.
Btw, the counter-example of somebody deliberately burning himself for a good reason, e.g. rescuing a child, remains to be refuted.
Yes, I do think most parents believe that punishment is required to teach right from wrong. Or at least a large proportion of them do. This includes virtually all parents who employ physical punishment.
However, when they are not punishing, they accept that part of their role as parents is to protect their children from the consequences of mistakes. Not to add to those consequences.
It’s just my opinion. How do you think they think about it?
The actual reason they punish is because they seek to control their children (to ‘modify their behaviour’). However, deliberately causing a person close to you to suffer is wrong. Children aren’t an exception to this principle.
It’s also futile because coercion cannot solve family problems, or any other problem, only creativity and thought can do that. Which is one reason why punishments are also unreliable.
thomasR,
Do you have any children?
detroit:
I’m convinced he’s just a troll.
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Hillary fading fast?
Comments on this entry are closed.