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	<title>Comments on: Hillary Ahead In Popular Vote</title>
	<atom:link href="http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: benfrankln</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-155003</link>
		<dc:creator>benfrankln</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 01:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-155003</guid>
		<description>Calling Michael Barone&#039;s analysis &quot;always sober&quot; is like calling Goebbels&#039; propaganda &quot;always purposeful.&quot;

No offense to Michael, but hardly the most honest journalist in America.

&lt;em&gt;benfrankln&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://benfrankln.blogspot.com/2008/04/some-resolution-about-being-decent.html&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Some resolution about being a decent person&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calling Michael Barone&#8217;s analysis &quot;always sober&quot; is like calling Goebbels&#8217; propaganda &quot;always purposeful.&quot;</p>
<p>No offense to Michael, but hardly the most honest journalist in America.</p>
<p><em>benfrankln&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://benfrankln.blogspot.com/2008/04/some-resolution-about-being-decent.html' rel="nofollow">Some resolution about being a decent person</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: P Mike</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-154990</link>
		<dc:creator>P Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-154990</guid>
		<description>Point of order:

&quot;Above all, Clinton and McCain both tend to be centrists.&quot;

Clinton tends to say whatever it takes to appeal to whatever audience she thinks she is addressing.  The Clinton machine has ALWAYS been steered (what seems to be exclusively) by polls; therefore when addressing the larger audience she seems to be center leaning.  She laughs, she cries, she shoots, she drinks, she swears like a sailor, she crawls on her belly like a reptile. (Okay, maybe I cribbed some of that from an old song).

In the past while I remember talk about how much too right-wing or left-wing a candidate was in the general election, I don&#039;t remember ever this much focus on which of two candidates were &quot;electable.&quot; Neither seems to be capable of articulating a set of positions that appeal broadly; this is more than any election cycle I can remember a battle of personalities and cults.  Based on the current rhetoric, the Democratic party is more concerned about getting power, and less about what is good for the country.

I would like to see some analysis related to what naming Clinton heir apparent over Obama in the next election will do to the Democratic party.  There is a very good chance that the quest for power will end up with some deep fissures in traditional and  strongly Democratic party factions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point of order:</p>
<p>&quot;Above all, Clinton and McCain both tend to be centrists.&quot;</p>
<p>Clinton tends to say whatever it takes to appeal to whatever audience she thinks she is addressing.  The Clinton machine has ALWAYS been steered (what seems to be exclusively) by polls; therefore when addressing the larger audience she seems to be center leaning.  She laughs, she cries, she shoots, she drinks, she swears like a sailor, she crawls on her belly like a reptile. (Okay, maybe I cribbed some of that from an old song).</p>
<p>In the past while I remember talk about how much too right-wing or left-wing a candidate was in the general election, I don&#8217;t remember ever this much focus on which of two candidates were &quot;electable.&quot; Neither seems to be capable of articulating a set of positions that appeal broadly; this is more than any election cycle I can remember a battle of personalities and cults.  Based on the current rhetoric, the Democratic party is more concerned about getting power, and less about what is good for the country.</p>
<p>I would like to see some analysis related to what naming Clinton heir apparent over Obama in the next election will do to the Democratic party.  There is a very good chance that the quest for power will end up with some deep fissures in traditional and  strongly Democratic party factions.</p>
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		<title>By: Hank Barnes</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-154986</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-154986</guid>
		<description>Good analysis, gents. It reminds me of the Dean phenomenom in 04. As I recall, the man was on the cover of both Time and Newsweek, and had all the energy, money and excitementÂ  as the only man who opposed the Iraq War-- until the Dem establishment in Iowa clamped down on him and aborted his presidential quest.

Obama, I think, is a much more talented candidate than Howard Dean. But, now that he is finally being vetted, not feted, we see a similar dynamic.

HankB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good analysis, gents. It reminds me of the Dean phenomenom in 04. As I recall, the man was on the cover of both Time and Newsweek, and had all the energy, money and excitementÂ  as the only man who opposed the Iraq War&#8211; until the Dem establishment in Iowa clamped down on him and aborted his presidential quest.</p>
<p>Obama, I think, is a much more talented candidate than Howard Dean. But, now that he is finally being vetted, not feted, we see a similar dynamic.</p>
<p>HankB</p>
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		<title>By: Martin L. Shoemaker</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-154984</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin L. Shoemaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 15:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-154984</guid>
		<description>Something not being mentioned is what sort of coattails Senator FillInTheBank will have, and how that will affect downticket races. Now maybe you and I don&#039;t care about those, but the superdelegates do: many of them are &lt;strong&gt;running&lt;/strong&gt; in those races. They won&#039;t admit it; but when they decide who to fill in the blank,Â one considerationÂ will have to be &quot;WillÂ Senator FillInTheBlankÂ gain me votes, or lose them?&quot;


This race is now about one thing: superdelegates, and how Senator Clinton will persuade them that what&#039;s in &lt;em&gt;her&lt;/em&gt; best interest is inÂ &lt;em&gt;their&lt;/em&gt; best interests. Popular votes and delegate counts are now merely tools in that campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something not being mentioned is what sort of coattails Senator FillInTheBank will have, and how that will affect downticket races. Now maybe you and I don&#8217;t care about those, but the superdelegates do: many of them are <strong>running</strong> in those races. They won&#8217;t admit it; but when they decide who to fill in the blank,Â one considerationÂ will have to be &quot;WillÂ Senator FillInTheBlankÂ gain me votes, or lose them?&quot;</p>
<p>This race is now about one thing: superdelegates, and how Senator Clinton will persuade them that what&#8217;s in <em>her</em> best interest is inÂ <em>their</em> best interests. Popular votes and delegate counts are now merely tools in that campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: ArnoldHarris</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-154981</link>
		<dc:creator>ArnoldHarris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/04/26/hillary-ahead-in-popular-vote/#comment-154981</guid>
		<description>Of course she is ahead, counting the primary election votes in both Florida and Michigan despite the weird Democratic Party rules. And most significantly, all of America knows she hasÂ wonÂ the popular vote in all the large states exceptÂ for Obama&#039;s home state of Illinois.Â 

The Obama campaign can crow all they want about delegates and mathemtical inevitability. But there is growing evidence of unease among the unpledgedÂ super-delegates, and I suspect, amongÂ not a few pledged ones as well, concerning Obama&#039;s electability in November. 

And if even supposedly committed delegates change their mind and choose another candidate? This not being Joe Stalin&#039;s USSR, there&#039;s no GPU that will come to their home that very night and send them to either to a Gulag or a midnight visit to an execution chamber. 

And why shouldn&#039;t they feel uneasy?

He attracts most of the black vote and Clinton gets most of the white vote. But Blacks are now a smaller minority in this country than Latinos.

He attracts whiteÂ leftists, university students andÂ entertainment industryÂ elitists. But Clinton attracks working class whites, women, Roman Catholics, Jews,Â small town/ruralÂ folks; all of whomÂ constitute the those very groups that put the Democrats in power with Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1932, and kept them there three three more terms plus Harry S Truman&#039;sÂ full term from the 1948 election.

Above all, Clinton and McCainÂ both tend to be centrists. And centrists -- not the wingnuts -- are the ones who attract the independent voters who not infrequently decide the election.

The two months since Obama&#039;s campaign peaked in February have seen a general meltdown in that man&#039;s magic show. I do not think the voters in November will see him as presidential timber. If he heads theÂ democraticÂ ticket, he will get the same treatment as Adlai Stevenson in the 1950s and Michael Dukakis in the 1980s.

And right now, I think those are the thoughts percolating through the minds of the delegates to the Democratic Party National ConventionÂ for 2008. Obama, for all theÂ glib talk, for all the media coronations that haveÂ  been awarded him, would accomplish nothing more than to give a President John McCainÂ an opportunityÂ to add about three moreÂ right of center justices to the United States Supreme Court.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course she is ahead, counting the primary election votes in both Florida and Michigan despite the weird Democratic Party rules. And most significantly, all of America knows she hasÂ wonÂ the popular vote in all the large states exceptÂ for Obama&#8217;s home state of Illinois.Â </p>
<p>The Obama campaign can crow all they want about delegates and mathemtical inevitability. But there is growing evidence of unease among the unpledgedÂ super-delegates, and I suspect, amongÂ not a few pledged ones as well, concerning Obama&#8217;s electability in November. </p>
<p>And if even supposedly committed delegates change their mind and choose another candidate? This not being Joe Stalin&#8217;s USSR, there&#8217;s no GPU that will come to their home that very night and send them to either to a Gulag or a midnight visit to an execution chamber. </p>
<p>And why shouldn&#8217;t they feel uneasy?</p>
<p>He attracts most of the black vote and Clinton gets most of the white vote. But Blacks are now a smaller minority in this country than Latinos.</p>
<p>He attracts whiteÂ leftists, university students andÂ entertainment industryÂ elitists. But Clinton attracks working class whites, women, Roman Catholics, Jews,Â small town/ruralÂ folks; all of whomÂ constitute the those very groups that put the Democrats in power with Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1932, and kept them there three three more terms plus Harry S Truman&#8217;sÂ full term from the 1948 election.</p>
<p>Above all, Clinton and McCainÂ both tend to be centrists. And centrists &#8212; not the wingnuts &#8212; are the ones who attract the independent voters who not infrequently decide the election.</p>
<p>The two months since Obama&#8217;s campaign peaked in February have seen a general meltdown in that man&#8217;s magic show. I do not think the voters in November will see him as presidential timber. If he heads theÂ democraticÂ ticket, he will get the same treatment as Adlai Stevenson in the 1950s and Michael Dukakis in the 1980s.</p>
<p>And right now, I think those are the thoughts percolating through the minds of the delegates to the Democratic Party National ConventionÂ for 2008. Obama, for all theÂ glib talk, for all the media coronations that haveÂ  been awarded him, would accomplish nothing more than to give a President John McCainÂ an opportunityÂ to add about three moreÂ right of center justices to the United States Supreme Court.</p>
<p>Arnold Harris<br />
Mount Horeb WI</p>
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