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	<title>Comments on: Obama Panders to Women by Insulting Men</title>
	<atom:link href="http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: jrogge</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/#comment-159032</link>
		<dc:creator>jrogge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/#comment-159032</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, so if a woman is to be obedient to her husband, how does that apply to her giving a crap about any other man? He said submit to and desire your husband. This means everyone else should be fair game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, so if a woman is to be obedient to her husband, how does that apply to her giving a crap about any other man? He said submit to and desire your husband. This means everyone else should be fair game.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/#comment-158975</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 00:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/#comment-158975</guid>
		<description>Most Christians don&#039;t take that logic to such extremes. It&#039;s perfectly fair, for example, to take that stuff in Genesis about childbearing as a simple practical reality--pregnancy is basically not optional for women who want to have sex when there is no reliable birth control, and women will have that urge and as a result are going to be dependent on the men in their lives.

It&#039;s not something decreed as something women must put up with always and under all circumstances per se; if we took that too literally we&#039;d outlaw any medical assistance against pain during and after childbirth, under the theory that God decreed women must undergo such pains. If we also took it too literally, we&#039;d say that birth control should not be allowed--which is believed by some Christian groups (and is officially taught by the Catholic Church, even if often unobserved and with even some Bishops objecting) but is actively resisted by most non-Catholic Christians.

Also, if we read Ephesians carefully, it very clearly lays out strong responsibilities to the man toward his wife, including respecting and loving her always, and seeing her as one flesh with him and with the same love Christ showed the Church (verses 25-33 immediately following the part Kevin quotes), with compassion, mercy, forgiveness, respect, and selflessness. 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gotquestions.org/roles-husband-wife-family.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s a pretty good article on it&lt;/a&gt;. And &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.religioustolerance.org/cfe_bibl.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&#039;s a more scholarly one&lt;/a&gt;. 

It&#039;s not clear to me that any of this should lead to women automatically resenting men and wanting to be superior to men anyway. Indeed, I don&#039;t even see how that follows, especially as regards relationships between men and women who aren&#039;t married.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most Christians don&#8217;t take that logic to such extremes. It&#8217;s perfectly fair, for example, to take that stuff in Genesis about childbearing as a simple practical reality&#8211;pregnancy is basically not optional for women who want to have sex when there is no reliable birth control, and women will have that urge and as a result are going to be dependent on the men in their lives.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not something decreed as something women must put up with always and under all circumstances per se; if we took that too literally we&#8217;d outlaw any medical assistance against pain during and after childbirth, under the theory that God decreed women must undergo such pains. If we also took it too literally, we&#8217;d say that birth control should not be allowed&#8211;which is believed by some Christian groups (and is officially taught by the Catholic Church, even if often unobserved and with even some Bishops objecting) but is actively resisted by most non-Catholic Christians.</p>
<p>Also, if we read Ephesians carefully, it very clearly lays out strong responsibilities to the man toward his wife, including respecting and loving her always, and seeing her as one flesh with him and with the same love Christ showed the Church (verses 25-33 immediately following the part Kevin quotes), with compassion, mercy, forgiveness, respect, and selflessness. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.gotquestions.org/roles-husband-wife-family.html" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s a pretty good article on it</a>. And <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/cfe_bibl.htm" rel="nofollow">here&#8217;s a more scholarly one</a>. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not clear to me that any of this should lead to women automatically resenting men and wanting to be superior to men anyway. Indeed, I don&#8217;t even see how that follows, especially as regards relationships between men and women who aren&#8217;t married.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin D.</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/#comment-158955</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/#comment-158955</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Iâ€™ve never understood why some women have this great and unending desire to be told that theyâ€™re better than men and to put men down.&lt;/blockquote&gt;  Genesis 3:16
&lt;em&gt;To the woman he said, &quot;I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.Â  Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

Ephesians 5:22-24
&lt;em&gt;Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.Â  For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.Â  Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.&lt;/em&gt;

It&#039;s rebellion against God&#039;s plan.Â  Plain and simple.Â  Once you understand that God has placed the husband over the wife, the reasoning for female desire to reverse that order becomes plain as day.Â  Their flesh hates to be in submission to the opposite sex, just as the flesh of men hates to be in submission to God.

Of course, if you reject God&#039;s hierarchy, and I don&#039;t know if you&#039;re Christian, Jewish or other, Glenn, I can understand why you might be confused by this desire of so many women not to be just equals with men, but better.

To me, though, the reason is as elementary as 1 + 1.Â  God has a hierarchy and the flesh of women don&#039;t like their place in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Iâ€™ve never understood why some women have this great and unending desire to be told that theyâ€™re better than men and to put men down.</p></blockquote>
<p>  Genesis 3:16<br />
<em>To the woman he said, &quot;I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.Â  Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.&quot;</em></p>
<p>Ephesians 5:22-24<br />
<em>Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.Â  For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.Â  Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.</em></p>
<p>It&#8217;s rebellion against God&#8217;s plan.Â  Plain and simple.Â  Once you understand that God has placed the husband over the wife, the reasoning for female desire to reverse that order becomes plain as day.Â  Their flesh hates to be in submission to the opposite sex, just as the flesh of men hates to be in submission to God.</p>
<p>Of course, if you reject God&#8217;s hierarchy, and I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re Christian, Jewish or other, Glenn, I can understand why you might be confused by this desire of so many women not to be just equals with men, but better.</p>
<p>To me, though, the reason is as elementary as 1 + 1.Â  God has a hierarchy and the flesh of women don&#8217;t like their place in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Hank Barnes</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/#comment-158952</link>
		<dc:creator>Hank Barnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/07/01/obama-panders-to-women-by-insulting-men/#comment-158952</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;â€œShe rocks. Thatâ€™s the point Iâ€™m trying to make,â€&lt;/i&gt;

She rocks?!!? Is this a presidential campaign to become the Commander in Chief of the greatest, most powerful nation on earth -- or an MTV audition tape?

HB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>â€œShe rocks. Thatâ€™s the point Iâ€™m trying to make,â€</i></p>
<p>She rocks?!!? Is this a presidential campaign to become the Commander in Chief of the greatest, most powerful nation on earth &#8212; or an MTV audition tape?</p>
<p>HB</p>
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