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	<title>Comments on: The Lives of Others</title>
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	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: ArnoldHarris</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162454</link>
		<dc:creator>ArnoldHarris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162454</guid>
		<description>Calm down, Celia. You always offend too easily. And it&#039;s only a political campaign.

Besides, being victimized this way attracts  the sympathy vote.

Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calm down, Celia. You always offend too easily. And it&#8217;s only a political campaign.</p>
<p>Besides, being victimized this way attracts  the sympathy vote.</p>
<p>Arnold Harris<br />
Mount Horeb WI</p>
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		<title>By: jrogge</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162446</link>
		<dc:creator>jrogge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162446</guid>
		<description>The problem here is if we acknowledge this guy then we have to acknowledge the thousands of &quot;Yahoo&quot; accounts that have gotten hacked over time. This opens up a can of worms no matter what.

If Palin prosecutes to the full extent of the law (I believe hacking is considered a terrorist act now) then she&#039;ll be labeled a fascist. If Obama denounces the behavior it will make it seem like he is somehow associated with it on some level. I will be very surprised if this is not treated like a dead horse and buried as fast as possible by both candidates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem here is if we acknowledge this guy then we have to acknowledge the thousands of &quot;Yahoo&quot; accounts that have gotten hacked over time. This opens up a can of worms no matter what.</p>
<p>If Palin prosecutes to the full extent of the law (I believe hacking is considered a terrorist act now) then she&#8217;ll be labeled a fascist. If Obama denounces the behavior it will make it seem like he is somehow associated with it on some level. I will be very surprised if this is not treated like a dead horse and buried as fast as possible by both candidates.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162438</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162438</guid>
		<description>Er, I hate to nit-pick, but the ACLU often goes after private companies and organizations that it perceives to be threatening civil liberties as they see them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, I hate to nit-pick, but the ACLU often goes after private companies and organizations that it perceives to be threatening civil liberties as they see them.</p>
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		<title>By: Celia Farber</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162431</link>
		<dc:creator>Celia Farber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162431</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sigivald,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You&#039;re right, and I stand corrected.Â I din&#039;t think of that basic distinction about the ACLU for example.Â  However, let me argue differently: Maybe we are both right.Â What I am saying is that the persecuting, surveillance-hungry, privacy eroding, humiliating, shaming, gotcha &lt;em&gt;spirit &lt;/em&gt;is everywhere, and one should&#039;t necessarily watch for it only from the &quot;state.&quot;Â 

Â It&#039;s in academia, the media, the workplace, the corporate world...and the point I suppose is how those organs may be fed by the state&#039;s interests, and vice versa. 

The media cogniscenti cannot claim indignation and horror at &quot;wiretapping&quot;Â and erosions of civil liberties, and NOT condemn this outright.Â  Never mind that it wasn&#039;t perpetrated by the &quot;state.&quot;Â 

It is the principle of surveillance and invasion of privacy we are talking about.Â Either we are opposed to illegal surveillance--to a&lt;em&gt;Â kultur &lt;/em&gt;of surveillance--or we are not. When they (Gawker et al)Â point to the fruits of surveillance--what can be gleaned--theyÂ have lost all. That is precisely the best argument of the best fascists. &quot;But look what you can find!&quot;

I dare not draw the line only at state surveillance. I wish toÂ scream bloody murder at &lt;em&gt;any &lt;/em&gt;instance of privacy destruction, or destruction of individual rights and freedoms, by state,Â by media, by academia, or by any other medium.Â Â (Let&#039;s throw in divorces, celebrity invasion, and whatever else you got.) I say the best people in this world are the ones who are best at minding their own business. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigivald,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, and I stand corrected.Â I din&#8217;t think of that basic distinction about the ACLU for example.Â  However, let me argue differently: Maybe we are both right.Â What I am saying is that the persecuting, surveillance-hungry, privacy eroding, humiliating, shaming, gotcha <em>spirit </em>is everywhere, and one should&#8217;t necessarily watch for it only from the &quot;state.&quot;Â </p>
<p>Â It&#8217;s in academia, the media, the workplace, the corporate world&#8230;and the point I suppose is how those organs may be fed by the state&#8217;s interests, and vice versa. </p>
<p>The media cogniscenti cannot claim indignation and horror at &quot;wiretapping&quot;Â and erosions of civil liberties, and NOT condemn this outright.Â  Never mind that it wasn&#8217;t perpetrated by the &quot;state.&quot;Â </p>
<p>It is the principle of surveillance and invasion of privacy we are talking about.Â Either we are opposed to illegal surveillance&#8211;to a<em>Â kultur </em>of surveillance&#8211;or we are not. When they (Gawker et al)Â point to the fruits of surveillance&#8211;what can be gleaned&#8211;theyÂ have lost all. That is precisely the best argument of the best fascists. &quot;But look what you can find!&quot;</p>
<p>I dare not draw the line only at state surveillance. I wish toÂ scream bloody murder at <em>any </em>instance of privacy destruction, or destruction of individual rights and freedoms, by state,Â by media, by academia, or by any other medium.Â Â (Let&#8217;s throw in divorces, celebrity invasion, and whatever else you got.) I say the best people in this world are the ones who are best at minding their own business. </p>
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		<title>By: Sigivald</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162430</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigivald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162430</guid>
		<description>The ACLU attacks &lt;i&gt;state action&lt;/i&gt; it finds repugnant to civil liberties.

The crackers who did this are not the State or its agents or even agents of a political party (despite the fact that they have an obvious political agenda - I&#039;ve no reason at all to think the Democratic Party supported or supports them or their efforts). Nor is Gawker any of the above.

The ACLU naturally hasn&#039;t had a comment on it, because it&#039;s outside of their purview - and because while it&#039;s reprehensible to reprint things that are best left private, it&#039;s also protected by the First Amendment under current jurisprudence. (Such as there is held to be a general right to privacy, it applies &lt;i&gt;only to state action&lt;/i&gt;, just as a private property owner can muzzle your speech &lt;i&gt;on his property&lt;/i&gt; in general.)

There might be a &lt;i&gt;tort&lt;/i&gt; against Gawker, but there&#039;s no Constitutional or Civil Liberties issue.

(Likewise, I think all comparisons with the Stasi or Fascism are overblown and perhaps contrary to the point; &lt;i&gt;the State&lt;/i&gt; had nothing to do with this (and in fact if it can find the perpetrator, the State will be &lt;i&gt;punishing it&lt;/i&gt; this is more like classic yellow journalism, with a criminal edge on the part of the crackers.

I&#039;m not sure Gawker&#039;s spirit is &quot;fascist&quot; so much as &quot;chav&quot; or &quot;utterly without decency&quot;. They&#039;re more like Senator McCarthy at his worst (and without the excuse of there really being Communists in the State Department).)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ACLU attacks <i>state action</i> it finds repugnant to civil liberties.</p>
<p>The crackers who did this are not the State or its agents or even agents of a political party (despite the fact that they have an obvious political agenda &#8211; I&#8217;ve no reason at all to think the Democratic Party supported or supports them or their efforts). Nor is Gawker any of the above.</p>
<p>The ACLU naturally hasn&#8217;t had a comment on it, because it&#8217;s outside of their purview &#8211; and because while it&#8217;s reprehensible to reprint things that are best left private, it&#8217;s also protected by the First Amendment under current jurisprudence. (Such as there is held to be a general right to privacy, it applies <i>only to state action</i>, just as a private property owner can muzzle your speech <i>on his property</i> in general.)</p>
<p>There might be a <i>tort</i> against Gawker, but there&#8217;s no Constitutional or Civil Liberties issue.</p>
<p>(Likewise, I think all comparisons with the Stasi or Fascism are overblown and perhaps contrary to the point; <i>the State</i> had nothing to do with this (and in fact if it can find the perpetrator, the State will be <i>punishing it</i> this is more like classic yellow journalism, with a criminal edge on the part of the crackers.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure Gawker&#8217;s spirit is &quot;fascist&quot; so much as &quot;chav&quot; or &quot;utterly without decency&quot;. They&#8217;re more like Senator McCarthy at his worst (and without the excuse of there really being Communists in the State Department).)</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Madigan</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162423</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Madigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162423</guid>
		<description>Yes, Bravo Celia!

This really is a bigger issue than Obama vs. McCain. Our media really does believe that they&#039;re above the law, and they have no respect at all for our privacy. 

Some democrats are dumb enough to defend the press in this case because they believe the press is on their side, but they forget about how the press joined with Ken Starr in his efforts to destroy and humiliate Bill Clinton.Â  They also forget about how nasty the press was towards Chelsea Clinton when she was younger.Â  The enemy of their enemy is not their friend.

They only differ from the Stasi in one way - they are vulnerable to public outrage.Â  They need to see tons of critical blogposts , they need to get lots of letters and they need to lose a lot of ad revenue before they&#039;ll learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Bravo Celia!</p>
<p>This really is a bigger issue than Obama vs. McCain. Our media really does believe that they&#8217;re above the law, and they have no respect at all for our privacy. </p>
<p>Some democrats are dumb enough to defend the press in this case because they believe the press is on their side, but they forget about how the press joined with Ken Starr in his efforts to destroy and humiliate Bill Clinton.Â  They also forget about how nasty the press was towards Chelsea Clinton when she was younger.Â  The enemy of their enemy is not their friend.</p>
<p>They only differ from the Stasi in one way &#8211; they are vulnerable to public outrage.Â  They need to see tons of critical blogposts , they need to get lots of letters and they need to lose a lot of ad revenue before they&#8217;ll learn.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162422</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162422</guid>
		<description>Er, sorry, I meant 2004, a year in which we saw police physically assaulted, hack threats against prominent bloggers, and more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Er, sorry, I meant 2004, a year in which we saw police physically assaulted, hack threats against prominent bloggers, and more.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin L. Shoemaker</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162419</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin L. Shoemaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162419</guid>
		<description>Bravo, Celia!


As for the rest: there&#039;s still no evidence linking this to the Obama campaign. &quot;I wouldnâ€™t put it past him&quot; is the sort of rationalization that leads to justifying -- well, justifying acts like hacking email, because &quot;we know there&#039;s gotta be dirt there.&quot;


But I do agree that if Senator Obama doesn&#039;t come out -- &lt;strong&gt;today&lt;/strong&gt; --Â and publicly condemn this &lt;strong&gt;and everyone who is cheering it on and trying to use it against Governor Palin&lt;/strong&gt;, then he&#039;s a politically naive fool, and he deserves to lose. These people are the Nixons and Liddys of the digital age, and he needs to distance himself from them in no uncertain terms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo, Celia!</p>
<p>As for the rest: there&#8217;s still no evidence linking this to the Obama campaign. &quot;I wouldnâ€™t put it past him&quot; is the sort of rationalization that leads to justifying &#8212; well, justifying acts like hacking email, because &quot;we know there&#8217;s gotta be dirt there.&quot;</p>
<p>But I do agree that if Senator Obama doesn&#8217;t come out &#8212; <strong>today</strong> &#8211;Â and publicly condemn this <strong>and everyone who is cheering it on and trying to use it against Governor Palin</strong>, then he&#8217;s a politically naive fool, and he deserves to lose. These people are the Nixons and Liddys of the digital age, and he needs to distance himself from them in no uncertain terms.</p>
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		<title>By: zach</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162418</link>
		<dc:creator>zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162418</guid>
		<description>J.A.,

2004 campaigns?Â  I guess every campaign season would probably qualify.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.A.,</p>
<p>2004 campaigns?Â  I guess every campaign season would probably qualify.</p>
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		<title>By: J.A. Eddy</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162413</link>
		<dc:creator>J.A. Eddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 12:52:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/09/18/the-lives-of-others/#comment-162413</guid>
		<description>I do believe Dean meant the 2006 campaigns</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe Dean meant the 2006 campaigns</p>
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