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	<title>Comments on: The Biden/Palin Debate</title>
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	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: jrogge</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163312</link>
		<dc:creator>jrogge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163312</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;She showed herself to be a truly excellent moderator with great questions.

&lt;/em&gt;I especially liked when she&#039;d point out that &quot;neither of you answered my question&quot;. Tee hee.

This as what I expected, two VPs finding ways to work their running mate&#039;s sales pitches into the questions they answered. Palin did well since she had time to prepare answers and Biden didn&#039;t let loose and remarkable gaffes.

&lt;em&gt;Yeah, heâ€™s the new &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Burr&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Aaron Burr&lt;/a&gt;, right? Yeesh.&lt;/em&gt;

Well, not quite; Arron Burr only shot his enemies under the supervision of a formal duel. Cheney shot his friend in the face under the influence of al-kee-hol. What&#039;s more dangerous is debatable. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>She showed herself to be a truly excellent moderator with great questions.</p>
<p></em>I especially liked when she&#8217;d point out that &quot;neither of you answered my question&quot;. Tee hee.</p>
<p>This as what I expected, two VPs finding ways to work their running mate&#8217;s sales pitches into the questions they answered. Palin did well since she had time to prepare answers and Biden didn&#8217;t let loose and remarkable gaffes.</p>
<p><em>Yeah, heâ€™s the new <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Burr" rel="nofollow">Aaron Burr</a>, right? Yeesh.</em></p>
<p>Well, not quite; Arron Burr only shot his enemies under the supervision of a formal duel. Cheney shot his friend in the face under the influence of al-kee-hol. What&#8217;s more dangerous is debatable. :)</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163302</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 06:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163302</guid>
		<description>McKiernan:

The APPEARANCE of conflict of interest is generally considered to be enough to recuse people from participating in events with that appearance. And if you don&#039;t think there is an appearance of conflict of interest here... well, I don&#039;t know what to think about that.

&lt;em&gt;CosmicConservative&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4157&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Palin says Obama ?palling around? with terrorists&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McKiernan:</p>
<p>The APPEARANCE of conflict of interest is generally considered to be enough to recuse people from participating in events with that appearance. And if you don&#8217;t think there is an appearance of conflict of interest here&#8230; well, I don&#8217;t know what to think about that.</p>
<p><em>CosmicConservative&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4157' rel="nofollow">Palin says Obama ?palling around? with terrorists</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Mc Kiernan</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163258</link>
		<dc:creator>Mc Kiernan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163258</guid>
		<description>The book is in fact entitled:  &#160;  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Breakthrough-Politics-Race-Age-Obama/dp/038552501X&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;

The Breakthrough:  Politics and Race in the Age of Obama&lt;/a&gt;  &#160;  

That there is a clear conflict of interest with not anyone having read the (unpublished) book seems a very shaky,  subjective opinion.  &#160;
&#160;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The book is in fact entitled:  &nbsp;  <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Breakthrough-Politics-Race-Age-Obama/dp/038552501X" rel="nofollow"></p>
<p>The Breakthrough:  Politics and Race in the Age of Obama</a>  &nbsp;  </p>
<p>That there is a clear conflict of interest with not anyone having read the (unpublished) book seems a very shaky,  subjective opinion.  &nbsp;<br />
&nbsp;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Price</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163254</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163254</guid>
		<description>Also, Ahmadinejad does in fact set policy, and is actually in conflict with the Ayatollahs over some policies.Â  He is considerably more than just a hand puppet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, Ahmadinejad does in fact set policy, and is actually in conflict with the Ayatollahs over some policies.Â  He is considerably more than just a hand puppet.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Price</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163253</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 18:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163253</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dean, the book is called &quot;The Age of Obama&quot; and will be released on Inauguaration Day.Â  Estimates are she will make an extra $400K if he wins.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s a very clear conflict of interest.

Biden made numerous factual misstatements, some of which demonsrate his ignorance of the job (such as not knowing theÂ VP is always President of the Senate) andÂ someÂ which he knows aren&#039;t true ( McCain did not vote for that tax increase), and several statements that were deliberately misleading (such as arguing McCain was for deregulating FNMA and Freddie Mac, when in fact it was Democrats like Barney Frank who were demanding they back the subprime loans that have gotten us in this mess).

Of course, the press has said very little about this because they so badly want Obama to win.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean, the book is called &quot;The Age of Obama&quot; and will be released on Inauguaration Day.Â  Estimates are she will make an extra $400K if he wins.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a very clear conflict of interest.</p>
<p>Biden made numerous factual misstatements, some of which demonsrate his ignorance of the job (such as not knowing theÂ VP is always President of the Senate) andÂ someÂ which he knows aren&#8217;t true ( McCain did not vote for that tax increase), and several statements that were deliberately misleading (such as arguing McCain was for deregulating FNMA and Freddie Mac, when in fact it was Democrats like Barney Frank who were demanding they back the subprime loans that have gotten us in this mess).</p>
<p>Of course, the press has said very little about this because they so badly want Obama to win.</p>
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		<title>By: Mc Kiernan</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163251</link>
		<dc:creator>Mc Kiernan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163251</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;//www.pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/025239.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Joe Biden&#039;s constitutional flubs.&lt;/a&gt;  &#160;  

&lt;em&gt;And, yes, the VP&#039;s &lt;/em&gt;&lt;em&gt;legislative duties are in Article I. But that cuts precisely against the point that Biden was trying to make. Here&#039;s what Biden &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;said :&lt;/a&gt; &quot;Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we&#039;ve had probably in American history. The idea he doesn&#039;t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that&#039;s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that. . . . The only authority the vice president has from the legislative standpoint is the vote, only when there is a tie vote. He has no authority relative to the Congress. The idea he&#039;s part of the Legislative Branch is a bizarre notion invented by Cheney to aggrandize the power of a unitary executive and look where it has gotten us. It has been very dangerous.&quot; &lt;/em&gt;  &lt;em&gt; &lt;/em&gt;  

&lt;em&gt;This is wrong on multiple levels at once. Article I -- which deals with the legislative, not the Executive branch, says: &quot;The Vice President of the United   States&lt;/em&gt; shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.&quot; The Vice President presides over the Senate by right, whenever he/she wants to, regardless of whether there&#039;s a tie vote.

Glenn Reynolds  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="//www.pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/025239.php" rel="nofollow">Joe Biden&#8217;s constitutional flubs.</a>  &nbsp;  </p>
<p><em>And, yes, the VP&#8217;s </em><em>legislative duties are in Article I. But that cuts precisely against the point that Biden was trying to make. Here&#8217;s what Biden <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/" rel="nofollow">said :</a> &quot;Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we&#8217;ve had probably in American history. The idea he doesn&#8217;t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that&#8217;s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that. . . . The only authority the vice president has from the legislative standpoint is the vote, only when there is a tie vote. He has no authority relative to the Congress. The idea he&#8217;s part of the Legislative Branch is a bizarre notion invented by Cheney to aggrandize the power of a unitary executive and look where it has gotten us. It has been very dangerous.&quot; </em>  <em> </em>  </p>
<p><em>This is wrong on multiple levels at once. Article I &#8212; which deals with the legislative, not the Executive branch, says: &quot;The Vice President of the United   States</em> shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.&quot; The Vice President presides over the Senate by right, whenever he/she wants to, regardless of whether there&#8217;s a tie vote.</p>
<p>Glenn Reynolds  </p>
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		<title>By: Mc Kiernan</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163250</link>
		<dc:creator>Mc Kiernan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 17:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163250</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;... the VPâ€™s legislative duties include casting a tie breaking vote in the Senate. Only that. Nothing more. that doenst make him/her part of the legislative, its actually an Executive branch *check and balance* upon the legislative. &lt;/em&gt;... aziz

Aziz,  

Seriously, you need to get back on the learning curve, because  you are so very incorrect.

  &lt;a href=&quot;http://minx.cc/?post=274758&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Constitutional Law Scholar&quot; Biden&#039;s Article I Gaffe&lt;/a&gt;    &#160;  

&lt;a href=&quot;http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1029363&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;During a recent policy kerfuffle, Vice President Dick Cheney&#039;s office briefly argued that the Vice President is really a legislative official, and hence not subject to some obligations of the Executive branch. Though Cheney&#039;s office quickly shifted its argument to less controversial statutory grounds, it turns out that the Vice Presidency&#039;s legislative character is, in fact, quite significant.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1029363&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;  &lt;/a&gt;

Glenn Reynolds   University of Tennessee College of Law</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8230; the VPâ€™s legislative duties include casting a tie breaking vote in the Senate. Only that. Nothing more. that doenst make him/her part of the legislative, its actually an Executive branch *check and balance* upon the legislative. </em>&#8230; aziz</p>
<p>Aziz,  </p>
<p>Seriously, you need to get back on the learning curve, because  you are so very incorrect.</p>
<p>  <a href="http://minx.cc/?post=274758" rel="nofollow">&quot;Constitutional Law Scholar&quot; Biden&#8217;s Article I Gaffe</a>    &nbsp;  </p>
<p><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1029363" rel="nofollow">During a recent policy kerfuffle, Vice President Dick Cheney&#8217;s office briefly argued that the Vice President is really a legislative official, and hence not subject to some obligations of the Executive branch. Though Cheney&#8217;s office quickly shifted its argument to less controversial statutory grounds, it turns out that the Vice Presidency&#8217;s legislative character is, in fact, quite significant.</a><a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1029363" rel="nofollow">  </a></p>
<p>Glenn Reynolds   University of Tennessee College of Law</p>
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		<title>By: dagwinn</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163249</link>
		<dc:creator>dagwinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163249</guid>
		<description>Regarding the Constitutional definition of the role of the Vice President, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/025239.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Glenn Reynolds&lt;/a&gt; has written on this topic. To quote from an article abstract by Professor Reynolds (&quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1029363&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Is Dick Cheney Unconstitutional?&lt;/a&gt;&quot;)...

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;To the extent that the Vice President is a legislative official, however, it is likely that extensive delegation of Presidential authority to the Vice President, of the sort that Vice President Cheney has enjoyed, is probably unconstitutional and certainly unwise. This Essay argues for congressional action to limit the Vice President&#039;s role in Executive business.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;The President is not legislative, and she or he cannot be involved in debate on the floor. The VP, on the other hand, has the Constitutional position to use the rules of the Senate to control debate.

In fact, according to Professor Reynolds, the VP&#039;s budget was a Senate expense up until Spiro Agnew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the Constitutional definition of the role of the Vice President, <a href="http://www.pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives2/025239.php" rel="nofollow">Glenn Reynolds</a> has written on this topic. To quote from an article abstract by Professor Reynolds (&quot;<a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1029363" rel="nofollow">Is Dick Cheney Unconstitutional?</a>&quot;)&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p><em>To the extent that the Vice President is a legislative official, however, it is likely that extensive delegation of Presidential authority to the Vice President, of the sort that Vice President Cheney has enjoyed, is probably unconstitutional and certainly unwise. This Essay argues for congressional action to limit the Vice President&#8217;s role in Executive business.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>The President is not legislative, and she or he cannot be involved in debate on the floor. The VP, on the other hand, has the Constitutional position to use the rules of the Senate to control debate.</p>
<p>In fact, according to Professor Reynolds, the VP&#8217;s budget was a Senate expense up until Spiro Agnew.</p>
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		<title>By: Aziz Poonawalla</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163241</link>
		<dc:creator>Aziz Poonawalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163241</guid>
		<description>Paul, I&#039;m only human. If I dont extend that courtesy, call me on it, te way I called CC on it. Thats only fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, I&#8217;m only human. If I dont extend that courtesy, call me on it, te way I called CC on it. Thats only fair.</p>
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		<title>By: jodyneel</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163240</link>
		<dc:creator>jodyneel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/02/the-bidenpalin-debate/#comment-163240</guid>
		<description>Aziz (you mean me, not Elizabeth)

Again, In Article I, the President of the Senate is a specifiedÂ officeÂ for Congress and &quot;All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States&quot;. When the VP is otherwise engaged,Â the office is filled by the President Pro Tempore. 

For you to simultaneously believe thatÂ a) presiding over the Senate / breaking ties is an Executive power and b) that a single person can wear only 1 hat, you shouldÂ also believe that Robert Byrd is a member of the Executive Branch as he fulfills that same duty by virtue of being President Pro Tempore. 

Also FYI - breaking a tie vote is not a check on Legislative power. With a tie, nothing happens so there is nothing to check. 

Really, it&#039;s as easy as &quot;one man/office, two hats&quot;.

&lt;em&gt;jodyneel&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://polyscifi.blogspot.com/2008/10/mccain-bailout-and-my-disgust.html&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;McCain, the Bailout, and my disgust&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aziz (you mean me, not Elizabeth)</p>
<p>Again, In Article I, the President of the Senate is a specifiedÂ officeÂ for Congress and &quot;All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States&quot;. When the VP is otherwise engaged,Â the office is filled by the President Pro Tempore. </p>
<p>For you to simultaneously believe thatÂ a) presiding over the Senate / breaking ties is an Executive power and b) that a single person can wear only 1 hat, you shouldÂ also believe that Robert Byrd is a member of the Executive Branch as he fulfills that same duty by virtue of being President Pro Tempore. </p>
<p>Also FYI &#8211; breaking a tie vote is not a check on Legislative power. With a tie, nothing happens so there is nothing to check. </p>
<p>Really, it&#8217;s as easy as &quot;one man/office, two hats&quot;.</p>
<p><em>jodyneel&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://polyscifi.blogspot.com/2008/10/mccain-bailout-and-my-disgust.html' rel="nofollow">McCain, the Bailout, and my disgust</a></em></p>
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