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	<title>Comments on: Obama Derangement Syndrome &#8211; the evidence mounts</title>
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	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: Aziz Poonawalla</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163713</link>
		<dc:creator>Aziz Poonawalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 20:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163713</guid>
		<description>I read the book, Martin. I borrowed it from a library, and I have also referred to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.com/books?id=nvsIQNwYvSwC&amp;dq=malkin+footnotes+japanese+internment&amp;pg=PP1&amp;ots=W1RPoU9LHJ&amp;source=bn&amp;sig=Ia1z77pKgMhc3y_aKRLv7-XVq_4&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;resnum=4&amp;ct=result#PPR21,M1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;online version&lt;/a&gt; several times at Google books. She makes an impassioned case for justifying Japanese American internment - a case that was &lt;a href=&quot;http://hnn.us/articles/7094.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;factually debunked&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://hnn.us/articles/7092.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comprehensively and systematically&lt;/a&gt;. The&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.isthatlegal.org/Muller_and_Robinson_on_Malkin.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; entire rebuttal is 29 posts long and first appeared on Volokh&lt;/a&gt;. And she&#039;s been making the basic argument that Islam and its adherents are &lt;a href=&quot;http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/09/badge-of-honor-islamophobias-dirty-dozen/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fundamentally hostile to American values as a matter of inherent doctrine&lt;/a&gt;, agreeing with Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer. 

So she does have a single line of CYA saying shes not directly advcating for Arab/muslim internment. Thats in the intro to the book. The rest of the book, and her own writing since, say otherwise. 

(incidentally, Martin I take comments by you very seriously and make every effort to find good suportive links. This is because I genuinely respect you. Please note that reciprocity and courtesy obligate you to ask me whether I&#039;d read a book before assuming I havent. Please extend me the benefit of the doubt that I have earned.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the book, Martin. I borrowed it from a library, and I have also referred to the <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=nvsIQNwYvSwC&amp;dq=malkin+footnotes+japanese+internment&amp;pg=PP1&amp;ots=W1RPoU9LHJ&amp;source=bn&amp;sig=Ia1z77pKgMhc3y_aKRLv7-XVq_4&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;resnum=4&amp;ct=result#PPR21,M1" rel="nofollow">online version</a> several times at Google books. She makes an impassioned case for justifying Japanese American internment &#8211; a case that was <a href="http://hnn.us/articles/7094.html" rel="nofollow">factually debunked</a>, <a href="http://hnn.us/articles/7092.html" rel="nofollow">comprehensively and systematically</a>. The<a href="http://www.isthatlegal.org/Muller_and_Robinson_on_Malkin.html" rel="nofollow"> entire rebuttal is 29 posts long and first appeared on Volokh</a>. And she&#8217;s been making the basic argument that Islam and its adherents are <a href="http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/09/badge-of-honor-islamophobias-dirty-dozen/" rel="nofollow">fundamentally hostile to American values as a matter of inherent doctrine</a>, agreeing with Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer. </p>
<p>So she does have a single line of CYA saying shes not directly advcating for Arab/muslim internment. Thats in the intro to the book. The rest of the book, and her own writing since, say otherwise. </p>
<p>(incidentally, Martin I take comments by you very seriously and make every effort to find good suportive links. This is because I genuinely respect you. Please note that reciprocity and courtesy obligate you to ask me whether I&#8217;d read a book before assuming I havent. Please extend me the benefit of the doubt that I have earned.)</p>
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		<title>By: Martin L. Shoemaker</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163700</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin L. Shoemaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163700</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Malkin is a particularly sore spot for me, given that she wants to round my kind up and all.&lt;/em&gt;


No, she doesn&#039;t. If you read her book, rather than reading lies told about her book, you&#039;ll understand that her point has been &lt;em&gt;entirely&lt;/em&gt; misunderstood and misrepresented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Malkin is a particularly sore spot for me, given that she wants to round my kind up and all.</em></p>
<p>No, she doesn&#8217;t. If you read her book, rather than reading lies told about her book, you&#8217;ll understand that her point has been <em>entirely</em> misunderstood and misrepresented.</p>
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		<title>By: jrogge</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163688</link>
		<dc:creator>jrogge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163688</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;How about the massive vote fraud ACORN is now committing? Do I even need to cite the last electionâ€™s slashed tires in Milwaukee, shots fired into Bush/Cheney offices in Tennessee, crudely forged 1971 memos slandering Bush passed to the national media (which was only too ready to believe them).&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/paulbubel/tinfoil-hat.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;It&#039;s a conspiracy!&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>How about the massive vote fraud ACORN is now committing? Do I even need to cite the last electionâ€™s slashed tires in Milwaukee, shots fired into Bush/Cheney offices in Tennessee, crudely forged 1971 memos slandering Bush passed to the national media (which was only too ready to believe them).</em></p>
<p><a href="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/paulbubel/tinfoil-hat.jpg" rel="nofollow">It&#8217;s a conspiracy!</a></p>
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		<title>By: zach</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163683</link>
		<dc:creator>zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163683</guid>
		<description>Dave,

&lt;blockquote&gt;You present as though itâ€™s some crazy right-wing lunacy, but weâ€™d be hearing the same from the MSM if McCain had a close 20-year relationship with a white racist pastor, a John Bircher instead of a Communist mentor, and had launched his political camapaign from the home of a right-wing terrorist like Eric Rudolph instead ofÂ the leftwing Weathermen.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_10/015097.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;well...&lt;/a&gt;

i think overall there&#039;s a tendency to think &quot;i am [right/left] leaning.Â  i am reasonable.Â  therefore, people who think like me are also pretty reasonable.&quot;Â  but i would submit that not only does nobody think alike, but everybody is very unreasonable about a large number of things which may or may not include politics or the current presidential candidates.

for example, Dave is very willing to give total passes to people extolling violence at McCain/Palin rallies, but suddenly shots fired into Bush/Cheney offices are emblematic of the left as a whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<blockquote><p>You present as though itâ€™s some crazy right-wing lunacy, but weâ€™d be hearing the same from the MSM if McCain had a close 20-year relationship with a white racist pastor, a John Bircher instead of a Communist mentor, and had launched his political camapaign from the home of a right-wing terrorist like Eric Rudolph instead ofÂ the leftwing Weathermen.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_10/015097.php" rel="nofollow">well&#8230;</a></p>
<p>i think overall there&#8217;s a tendency to think &quot;i am [right/left] leaning.Â  i am reasonable.Â  therefore, people who think like me are also pretty reasonable.&quot;Â  but i would submit that not only does nobody think alike, but everybody is very unreasonable about a large number of things which may or may not include politics or the current presidential candidates.</p>
<p>for example, Dave is very willing to give total passes to people extolling violence at McCain/Palin rallies, but suddenly shots fired into Bush/Cheney offices are emblematic of the left as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Aziz Poonawalla</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163681</link>
		<dc:creator>Aziz Poonawalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163681</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;He climbed atop a folding chair to give 30 campaign volunteers who were about to go canvassing door to door their talking points â€” for instance, the connection between Barack Obama and Osama bin Laden: &quot;Both have friends that bombed the Pentagon,&quot; he said. &quot;That is scary.&quot; It is also not exactly true â€” though that distorted reference to Obama&#039;s controversial association with William Ayers, a former 60s radical, was enough to get the volunteers stoked. &quot;And he won&#039;t salute the flag,&quot; one woman added, repeating another myth about Obama. She was quickly topped by a man who called out, &quot;We don&#039;t even know where Senator Obama was really born.&quot; Actually, we do; it&#039;s Hawaii.
&lt;/em&gt;
you&#039;re right, he never used the word &quot;ties&quot; himself, he was just ridiculously inflammatory and dishonest in a different way. I was however wrong to use the quotes, I was catually quoting the reporter, but the actual word was &quot;connection&quot; rather than &quot;tie&quot;, I seem to have substituted a synonym.

I am actually willing to grant you that you have a reasonable difference of opinion with me regarding whether the link to Ayers is significant. The &quot;launched his career in his house&quot; thing is pretty dishonest in itself, but theres lttle point in arguing about the details with you. I&#039;m not particularly worried about McCain&#039;s association with Hagee, either, though my reasoning is sure to drive you nuts, so I will spare you that, too. 

I will also concede that yes, the people who immediately and ferociously pushed back against the Palin nonsense at dailykos, in thread, were indeedunable to prevent that post form being indexed by google and linked to by other sites, bestowing it with sufficient pagerank to persist in google searches. The vast left wing conspiracy seems to be losing its luster. The only inflouence we have over google nowadays is getting them to honor Paqddington Bear instead of Columbus Day. Ha ha! small victory, but victory nevertheless.

UPDATE - just saw malkins links. Cafepress shirts? columnists in the Guardian? your evidnetiary standard is much lower than the one I used in my post. If you had examples of assassination rhetoric from pundits in The Nation or American prospect, or actual Democratic party personnel, or the frontpagers at major Democratic websites like Dailykos, or even shouts from the masses at Obama rallies, or anything even remotely comparable to what I&#039;ve shown in my post, then youd have a point, that yes the rhetoric on the right is as bad as the left - which is actually my point too, since I&#039;m NOt arguing one side worse than the other.

if you really want to go mud-dragging there are plenty of cafepress shirts about Obama I can link here and pollute the thread even further, but Im not interested in that level. Sinking to Malkin&#039;s levek rarely pays dividends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>He climbed atop a folding chair to give 30 campaign volunteers who were about to go canvassing door to door their talking points â€” for instance, the connection between Barack Obama and Osama bin Laden: &quot;Both have friends that bombed the Pentagon,&quot; he said. &quot;That is scary.&quot; It is also not exactly true â€” though that distorted reference to Obama&#8217;s controversial association with William Ayers, a former 60s radical, was enough to get the volunteers stoked. &quot;And he won&#8217;t salute the flag,&quot; one woman added, repeating another myth about Obama. She was quickly topped by a man who called out, &quot;We don&#8217;t even know where Senator Obama was really born.&quot; Actually, we do; it&#8217;s Hawaii.<br />
</em><br />
you&#8217;re right, he never used the word &quot;ties&quot; himself, he was just ridiculously inflammatory and dishonest in a different way. I was however wrong to use the quotes, I was catually quoting the reporter, but the actual word was &quot;connection&quot; rather than &quot;tie&quot;, I seem to have substituted a synonym.</p>
<p>I am actually willing to grant you that you have a reasonable difference of opinion with me regarding whether the link to Ayers is significant. The &quot;launched his career in his house&quot; thing is pretty dishonest in itself, but theres lttle point in arguing about the details with you. I&#8217;m not particularly worried about McCain&#8217;s association with Hagee, either, though my reasoning is sure to drive you nuts, so I will spare you that, too. </p>
<p>I will also concede that yes, the people who immediately and ferociously pushed back against the Palin nonsense at dailykos, in thread, were indeedunable to prevent that post form being indexed by google and linked to by other sites, bestowing it with sufficient pagerank to persist in google searches. The vast left wing conspiracy seems to be losing its luster. The only inflouence we have over google nowadays is getting them to honor Paqddington Bear instead of Columbus Day. Ha ha! small victory, but victory nevertheless.</p>
<p>UPDATE &#8211; just saw malkins links. Cafepress shirts? columnists in the Guardian? your evidnetiary standard is much lower than the one I used in my post. If you had examples of assassination rhetoric from pundits in The Nation or American prospect, or actual Democratic party personnel, or the frontpagers at major Democratic websites like Dailykos, or even shouts from the masses at Obama rallies, or anything even remotely comparable to what I&#8217;ve shown in my post, then youd have a point, that yes the rhetoric on the right is as bad as the left &#8211; which is actually my point too, since I&#8217;m NOt arguing one side worse than the other.</p>
<p>if you really want to go mud-dragging there are plenty of cafepress shirts about Obama I can link here and pollute the thread even further, but Im not interested in that level. Sinking to Malkin&#8217;s levek rarely pays dividends.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Price</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163680</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163680</guid>
		<description>Before I stop wasting time on this, a final demonstration of how dishonest your post is:

&quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1849422,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;font style=&quot;background-color: #e8e8e8&quot;&gt;Obamaâ€™s got â€œtiesâ€ to Osama&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/a&gt; bin Laden - Virginia GOP Chairman Rick Frederick&quot;

One might expect with the word &quot;ties&quot; in quotes that Frederick actually said they had ties, which would be a pretty serious accusation.Â  Of course, he said no such thing.Â  He just pointed out they both had &quot;friends who bombed the Pentagon&quot; -- which is entirely accurate.

You might spend a little more time worrying about your own derangement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before I stop wasting time on this, a final demonstration of how dishonest your post is:</p>
<p>&quot;<a href="http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1849422,00.html" rel="nofollow"><font style="background-color: #e8e8e8">Obamaâ€™s got â€œtiesâ€ to Osama</font></a> bin Laden &#8211; Virginia GOP Chairman Rick Frederick&quot;</p>
<p>One might expect with the word &quot;ties&quot; in quotes that Frederick actually said they had ties, which would be a pretty serious accusation.Â  Of course, he said no such thing.Â  He just pointed out they both had &quot;friends who bombed the Pentagon&quot; &#8212; which is entirely accurate.</p>
<p>You might spend a little more time worrying about your own derangement.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Price</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163679</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163679</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Dishman, there were ZERO scurrilous rumors about Sarah Palinâ€™s pregnancy in the mainstream left media. Apatr from Andrew Sullivan, who is as usual a basket case in his own world, but he got shouted down on it by every mainstream liberal blogger. &lt;/em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=sarah+palin+trig&amp;aq=f&amp;oq&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=sarah+palin+trig&amp;aq=f&amp;oq&lt;/a&gt;=

It&#039;s stillÂ theÂ THIRD result for Sarah Palin + Trig, and about half the first page.Â  That&#039;s how &quot;shouted down&quot; the rumor was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Dishman, there were ZERO scurrilous rumors about Sarah Palinâ€™s pregnancy in the mainstream left media. Apatr from Andrew Sullivan, who is as usual a basket case in his own world, but he got shouted down on it by every mainstream liberal blogger. </em><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=sarah+palin+trig&amp;aq=f&amp;oq" rel="nofollow"></p>
<p></a><a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&#038;q=sarah+palin+trig&#038;aq=f&#038;oq" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&#038;q=sarah+palin+trig&#038;aq=f&#038;oq</a>=</p>
<p>It&#8217;s stillÂ theÂ THIRD result for Sarah Palin + Trig, and about half the first page.Â  That&#8217;s how &#8220;shouted down&#8221; the rumor was.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Price</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163678</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163678</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;As far as â€œmost of these being trueâ€ I think that the statement alone is indicative of some contamination by ODS. None of them are even remotely reasonable lines of discourse.&lt;/em&gt;

Good grief.Â  There are actual &lt;em&gt;facts &lt;/em&gt;behind most of them, your lurid overstatements of what the links actually say notwithstanding.Â  Saying they aren&#039;t &quot;reasonable lines of discourse&quot; is especially galling considering Obama won his Senate seat by getting his opponent&#039;s child custody proceedings unsealed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>As far as â€œmost of these being trueâ€ I think that the statement alone is indicative of some contamination by ODS. None of them are even remotely reasonable lines of discourse.</em></p>
<p>Good grief.Â  There are actual <em>facts </em>behind most of them, your lurid overstatements of what the links actually say notwithstanding.Â  Saying they aren&#8217;t &quot;reasonable lines of discourse&quot; is especially galling considering Obama won his Senate seat by getting his opponent&#8217;s child custody proceedings unsealed.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Price</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163677</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163677</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Show me where you saw that in the mainstream liberal media or blogsphere. Iâ€™ve NEVER heard that, not a single time&lt;/em&gt;

You&#039;re kidding, right?Â  Remember the newspaper advertisement in FL about shooting Rumsfeld in the head?Â  The infamousÂ &quot;where are they now that we need them&quot; Guardian column about past presidential assassins?

That&#039;s off the top of my head.Â  Michelle has a whole chapter of her book devoted to the phenomenon.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://michellemalkin.com/2006/08/31/assassination-chic/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://michellemalkin.com/2006/08/31/assassination-chic/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Show me where you saw that in the mainstream liberal media or blogsphere. Iâ€™ve NEVER heard that, not a single time</em></p>
<p>You&#8217;re kidding, right?Â  Remember the newspaper advertisement in FL about shooting Rumsfeld in the head?Â  The infamousÂ &quot;where are they now that we need them&quot; Guardian column about past presidential assassins?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s off the top of my head.Â  Michelle has a whole chapter of her book devoted to the phenomenon.</p>
<p><a href="http://michellemalkin.com/2006/08/31/assassination-chic/" rel="nofollow">http://michellemalkin.com/2006/08/31/assassination-chic/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave Price</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163676</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/14/obama-derangement-syndrome-the-evidence-mounts/#comment-163676</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Â harbors secret communist designs and terrorist sympathies&lt;/em&gt;

You present as though it&#039;s some crazy right-wing lunacy, but we&#039;d be hearing the same from the MSM if McCain had a close 20-year relationship with a white racist pastor, a John Bircher instead of a Communist mentor, and had launched his political camapaign from the home of a right-wing terrorist like Eric Rudolph instead ofÂ the leftwing Weathermen.

Frankly, it&#039;s rather astonishing the media has managed to whitewash all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Â harbors secret communist designs and terrorist sympathies</em></p>
<p>You present as though it&#8217;s some crazy right-wing lunacy, but we&#8217;d be hearing the same from the MSM if McCain had a close 20-year relationship with a white racist pastor, a John Bircher instead of a Communist mentor, and had launched his political camapaign from the home of a right-wing terrorist like Eric Rudolph instead ofÂ the leftwing Weathermen.</p>
<p>Frankly, it&#8217;s rather astonishing the media has managed to whitewash all that.</p>
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