Comments on: Al Qaeda Collapse Continues In Iraq http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/ Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy. Wed, 23 May 2012 12:36:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: jrogge http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164099 jrogge Wed, 22 Oct 2008 04:51:16 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164099 <em>Now success is so spectacular it’s no longer deniable, even though of course things still are not perfect and never will be. </em>That is true, we pretty much have the country locked down now, and the government there has been able to build itself up to the point where they have a good chance of being able to defend themselves. Some people though suggested more troops from the onset. The 1991 Gulf War was carried out much better. This was due to the fact we came in with overwhelming force. History points out already that this was not well executed in the beginning. 358 deaths (during the entire first campaign) vs. 482 (Less than a year in the first year of the current war). The numbers are up to 4,104 now. It wasn't until the surge that we had a decisive hold there. It was a new strategy alright, but an old one won the war for us. Now success is so spectacular it’s no longer deniable, even though of course things still are not perfect and never will be.

That is true, we pretty much have the country locked down now, and the government there has been able to build itself up to the point where they have a good chance of being able to defend themselves.

Some people though suggested more troops from the onset. The 1991 Gulf War was carried out much better. This was due to the fact we came in with overwhelming force.

History points out already that this was not well executed in the beginning. 358 deaths (during the entire first campaign) vs. 482 (Less than a year in the first year of the current war). The numbers are up to 4,104 now. It wasn’t until the surge that we had a decisive hold there.

It was a new strategy alright, but an old one won the war for us.

]]> By: Dean Esmay http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164081 Dean Esmay Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:31:00 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164081 What I find fascinating about the whole thing is that, viewed in any realistic military historical lens, Iraq was never a disaster and was never honestly "a mess," even though that is now the conventional wisdom. Consistently, casualties were at a tiny fraction of any previous (victorious or failed) military campaign of comparable or larger scope by the American military. What's more is that, even at the darkest, bleakest times, by most rational measures things were much better for most of Iraq, although you'd never know it from the news stories. So, some things we were doing in our original plan (the one we supposedly didn't have, even though we'd it was published and put before Congress before we even went in) didn't work out as well as we had hoped. There were some screwups, which is normal with any large military (or any large bureaucratic) endeavor. Plans were changed, adaptations were put into place, and new people were put in charge to clean things up. Now success is so spectacular it's no longer deniable, even though of course things still are not perfect and never will be. So be it. As I say, history is going to be much kinder to those who were in charge of this whole thing than most people are right now. Bet on it. It was always foolish to bet against the Iraqi people. Who are, it turns out, not raving madmen who hate anyone who isn't them, and who are actually normaly people who love their country, hate fascism, and hate terrorism--and always have. What I find fascinating about the whole thing is that, viewed in any realistic military historical lens, Iraq was never a disaster and was never honestly "a mess," even though that is now the conventional wisdom. Consistently, casualties were at a tiny fraction of any previous (victorious or failed) military campaign of comparable or larger scope by the American military.

What’s more is that, even at the darkest, bleakest times, by most rational measures things were much better for most of Iraq, although you’d never know it from the news stories.

So, some things we were doing in our original plan (the one we supposedly didn’t have, even though we’d it was published and put before Congress before we even went in) didn’t work out as well as we had hoped. There were some screwups, which is normal with any large military (or any large bureaucratic) endeavor. Plans were changed, adaptations were put into place, and new people were put in charge to clean things up. Now success is so spectacular it’s no longer deniable, even though of course things still are not perfect and never will be.

So be it. As I say, history is going to be much kinder to those who were in charge of this whole thing than most people are right now. Bet on it.

It was always foolish to bet against the Iraqi people. Who are, it turns out, not raving madmen who hate anyone who isn’t them, and who are actually normaly people who love their country, hate fascism, and hate terrorism–and always have.

]]> By: MSimon http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164079 MSimon Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:37:45 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164079 jrogge, Al Q had to have a year or two as the bad guys to make the strategy work.  We had to fail before we succeeded. That is not a normal plan. That is improvisation. jrogge,

Al Q had to have a year or two as the bad guys to make the strategy work.  We had to fail before we succeeded. That is not a normal plan. That is improvisation.

]]> By: jrogge http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164051 jrogge Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:26:36 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164051 "We now see that things are a lot better in Iraq. Maybe if we had put a surge in in the beginning, it would've been a lot better..." :) "We now see that things are a lot better in Iraq. Maybe if we had put a surge in in the beginning, it would’ve been a lot better…"

:)

]]> By: Rune from Oslo Norway http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164040 Rune from Oslo Norway Tue, 21 Oct 2008 06:59:38 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164040 Of course we all know who the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqtada_al-Sadr" title="Real victor" rel="nofollow">real victor</a> here is. Of course we all know who the real victor here is.

]]> By: Dishman http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164032 Dishman Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:21:26 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/20/al-qaeda-collapse-continues-in-iraq/#comment-164032 Put this, in part, under the heading of "historical records of John McCain and Barack Obama". Both of them have taken stands.  One of them was wrong at least once. Put this, in part, under the heading of "historical records of John McCain and Barack Obama".

Both of them have taken stands.  One of them was wrong at least once.

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