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	<title>Comments on: Obama will not leave Iraq</title>
	<atom:link href="http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: geoff</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164247</link>
		<dc:creator>geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164247</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;[I]t&#039;s clear from [Obama&#039;s] comments that a sizable force will likely remain in Iraq for quite a while, and given that he plans to increase forces in Afghanistan, I expect that increasing the military budget is necessary.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081024/NEWS/810240332/-1/NEWS10&quot; title=&quot;Not necessarily&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Not necessarily&lt;/a&gt;: &quot;In a meeting with the editorial board of The Standard-Times, Rep. Frank, D-Mass., also called for a &lt;strong&gt;25 percent cut in military spending&lt;/strong&gt;, saying the Pentagon has to start choosing from its many weapons programs, and that upper-income taxpayers are going to see an increase in what they are asked to pay.    	 		  		The military cuts also mean &lt;strong&gt;getting out of Iraq sooner&lt;/strong&gt;, he said.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>[I]t&#8217;s clear from [Obama's] comments that a sizable force will likely remain in Iraq for quite a while, and given that he plans to increase forces in Afghanistan, I expect that increasing the military budget is necessary.</em></p>
<p><a href="http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081024/NEWS/810240332/-1/NEWS10" title="Not necessarily" rel="nofollow">Not necessarily</a>: &#8220;In a meeting with the editorial board of The Standard-Times, Rep. Frank, D-Mass., also called for a <strong>25 percent cut in military spending</strong>, saying the Pentagon has to start choosing from its many weapons programs, and that upper-income taxpayers are going to see an increase in what they are asked to pay.    	 		  		The military cuts also mean <strong>getting out of Iraq sooner</strong>, he said.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: jeanedcrusader</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164246</link>
		<dc:creator>jeanedcrusader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164246</guid>
		<description>I echo Scott&#039;s statement: Wishful thinking is the underpinning of Obama&#039;s foreign policy. And we don&#039;t know what to expect from Obama post-election in any type of foreign conflict at all, really. He&#039;s a liberal illuminati wild card. It&#039;s even more disturbing that his supporters think they know what he is going to do. Electing him is like getting married to someone you think you know, but he turns out to be a complete stranger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I echo Scott&#8217;s statement: Wishful thinking is the underpinning of Obama&#8217;s foreign policy. And we don&#8217;t know what to expect from Obama post-election in any type of foreign conflict at all, really. He&#8217;s a liberal illuminati wild card. It&#8217;s even more disturbing that his supporters think they know what he is going to do. Electing him is like getting married to someone you think you know, but he turns out to be a complete stranger.</p>
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		<title>By: redux46</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164226</link>
		<dc:creator>redux46</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164226</guid>
		<description>If staying in Iraq is a very important issue to you, than really just go vote for McCain because its guaranteed he&#039;ll stay there.

No point trying to justify it by looking for cryptic messages from Obama.

If Obama is seen to be following Bush&#039;s views on Iraq, than by 2010 he can kiss goodbye to the democratic congress/senate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If staying in Iraq is a very important issue to you, than really just go vote for McCain because its guaranteed he&#8217;ll stay there.</p>
<p>No point trying to justify it by looking for cryptic messages from Obama.</p>
<p>If Obama is seen to be following Bush&#8217;s views on Iraq, than by 2010 he can kiss goodbye to the democratic congress/senate</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164217</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164217</guid>
		<description>Dave:

I mostly agree with you, and this is why I think character counts, and I frankly find Obama&#039;s character to be different than the character that I believe belongs in the White House.

However, I think no matter who gets elected President, they are going to get a mega-dose of reality when they sit in the Oval Office and I suspect even some of my cherished notions about what I would do in that chair might come crashing to a painful end once I saw what their actual implementation might do.

I&#039;ll give Obama the benefit of the doubt that he can learn and pick a better course. In that sense I like the idea that a person can react to reality and change some core beliefs once presented with an accurate picture of reality which forces them to revise their notions. FDR, for example, ran for office as an isolationist who would stay out of European affairs, but once he sat in that office and saw what that policy would mean, he became one of the most committed warmongers we&#039;ve ever seen in that office. And good for him, that was the right thing to do.

&lt;em&gt;CosmicConservative&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4226&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Toon of the Day&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave:</p>
<p>I mostly agree with you, and this is why I think character counts, and I frankly find Obama&#8217;s character to be different than the character that I believe belongs in the White House.</p>
<p>However, I think no matter who gets elected President, they are going to get a mega-dose of reality when they sit in the Oval Office and I suspect even some of my cherished notions about what I would do in that chair might come crashing to a painful end once I saw what their actual implementation might do.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll give Obama the benefit of the doubt that he can learn and pick a better course. In that sense I like the idea that a person can react to reality and change some core beliefs once presented with an accurate picture of reality which forces them to revise their notions. FDR, for example, ran for office as an isolationist who would stay out of European affairs, but once he sat in that office and saw what that policy would mean, he became one of the most committed warmongers we&#8217;ve ever seen in that office. And good for him, that was the right thing to do.</p>
<p><em>CosmicConservative&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4226' rel="nofollow">Toon of the Day</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Dave Justus</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164213</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Justus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164213</guid>
		<description>So are we suppossed to be happy that he is deceitful to his supporters?Â  
 
 Frankly, I&#039;d rather see someone who I thought had the basic character to honestly say what they would do, even if I didn&#039;t agree with it then someone who didn&#039;t have a lot of intergrity but would do what I prefered.Â 

&lt;em&gt;Dave Justus&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.davejustus.com/2008/10/23/obama-give-me-another-10/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Obama: give me another $10&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So are we suppossed to be happy that he is deceitful to his supporters?Â  </p>
<p> Frankly, I&#8217;d rather see someone who I thought had the basic character to honestly say what they would do, even if I didn&#8217;t agree with it then someone who didn&#8217;t have a lot of intergrity but would do what I prefered.Â </p>
<p><em>Dave Justus&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://www.davejustus.com/2008/10/23/obama-give-me-another-10/' rel="nofollow">Obama: give me another $10</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164211</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 17:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164211</guid>
		<description>Realistically I don&#039;t think Obama will abanodon Iraq or Afghanistan.Â  I think his advisers will do what Greenspan did to Clinton after Clinton won in &#039;92, they&#039;ll pull him aside and deflate his idealism with a megadose of reality.Â  But this goes to the main reason I can&#039;t vote for the man now and prefer him to spend more time in the Senate or better yet serve as Govenor of Illinois before becoming President: he has no track record so we do not know what to expect from the man.

On about every issue that matters to me he has been all over the map.Â  Yes most politicians change positions to get votes but he seems to be a very egregious in his tendency to flip and flop.Â  At the end of the day he is just too much of an unknown factor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Realistically I don&#8217;t think Obama will abanodon Iraq or Afghanistan.Â  I think his advisers will do what Greenspan did to Clinton after Clinton won in &#8217;92, they&#8217;ll pull him aside and deflate his idealism with a megadose of reality.Â  But this goes to the main reason I can&#8217;t vote for the man now and prefer him to spend more time in the Senate or better yet serve as Govenor of Illinois before becoming President: he has no track record so we do not know what to expect from the man.</p>
<p>On about every issue that matters to me he has been all over the map.Â  Yes most politicians change positions to get votes but he seems to be a very egregious in his tendency to flip and flop.Â  At the end of the day he is just too much of an unknown factor.</p>
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		<title>By: Aziz Poonawalla</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164209</link>
		<dc:creator>Aziz Poonawalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164209</guid>
		<description>CC, i have reasons for my opinion on Iran. Ill maybe do a post on it later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CC, i have reasons for my opinion on Iran. Ill maybe do a post on it later.</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164207</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164207</guid>
		<description>Aziz:

Anyone who thinks Iran is going to give us &quot;open inspections of their plants&quot; and work together with us on &quot;terms of Iraq stability&quot; is simply not operating with a full deck.

This, in fact, is the fundamental foreign policy issue I have with Obama. As you so aptly demonstrate, it is foreign policy based on naive wishful thinking. (Which actually is a fair description of his domestic policy too.)

Again, I have to hope that Obama&#039;s actual advisers will remind him that appealing to the better nature of theocrats and despots has never been a successful policy. And I have to hope that he&#039;sÂ clever enough to realize that, even if many of his supporters are not.

&lt;em&gt;CosmicConservative&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4225&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The coming Obama thugocracy?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aziz:</p>
<p>Anyone who thinks Iran is going to give us &quot;open inspections of their plants&quot; and work together with us on &quot;terms of Iraq stability&quot; is simply not operating with a full deck.</p>
<p>This, in fact, is the fundamental foreign policy issue I have with Obama. As you so aptly demonstrate, it is foreign policy based on naive wishful thinking. (Which actually is a fair description of his domestic policy too.)</p>
<p>Again, I have to hope that Obama&#8217;s actual advisers will remind him that appealing to the better nature of theocrats and despots has never been a successful policy. And I have to hope that he&#8217;sÂ clever enough to realize that, even if many of his supporters are not.</p>
<p><em>CosmicConservative&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4225' rel="nofollow">The coming Obama thugocracy?</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Aziz Poonawalla</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164206</link>
		<dc:creator>Aziz Poonawalla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164206</guid>
		<description>Agreed with Cosmic, Dave -I dont see why the need for more boots is a losing strategy by definition. Fundamentally, the solution to Afghaistan is to weed out radicals who are a threat in eth short term while erasing it as a haven for those radicals in the long term. These are achievable goals, but requires more sensitive instruments than dropping bombs.

I think success in Iraq is tied to common cause with Iran in a regional sense. A negitiation with Iran in which we supply them nuclear material for power, they pemrit fully open inspections of thenir plants, and we work together in terms of Iraq stability, is ideal. Thats more likely under Obama than McCain, the latter who seems to accept the binary formulation of Iran as Evil Enemy Incarnate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed with Cosmic, Dave -I dont see why the need for more boots is a losing strategy by definition. Fundamentally, the solution to Afghaistan is to weed out radicals who are a threat in eth short term while erasing it as a haven for those radicals in the long term. These are achievable goals, but requires more sensitive instruments than dropping bombs.</p>
<p>I think success in Iraq is tied to common cause with Iran in a regional sense. A negitiation with Iran in which we supply them nuclear material for power, they pemrit fully open inspections of thenir plants, and we work together in terms of Iraq stability, is ideal. Thats more likely under Obama than McCain, the latter who seems to accept the binary formulation of Iran as Evil Enemy Incarnate.</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164205</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/10/24/obama-will-not-leave-iraq/#comment-164205</guid>
		<description>Dave:

I&#039;m not really that sophisticated about global geopolitics, but for some reason I have always felt that Afghanistan&#039;s success or failure is more based on our relationship and alliances with their neighbors than what goes on inside Afghanistan itself. I do think more boots on the ground is a way to help maintain some semblance of order as we deal with the actual root causes of the problem in that area. I don&#039;t find it to be a coincidence that Afghanistan resistance is so difficult to root out in a country that borders both Pakistan and Iran.

&lt;em&gt;CosmicConservative&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4225&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The coming Obama thugocracy?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not really that sophisticated about global geopolitics, but for some reason I have always felt that Afghanistan&#8217;s success or failure is more based on our relationship and alliances with their neighbors than what goes on inside Afghanistan itself. I do think more boots on the ground is a way to help maintain some semblance of order as we deal with the actual root causes of the problem in that area. I don&#8217;t find it to be a coincidence that Afghanistan resistance is so difficult to root out in a country that borders both Pakistan and Iran.</p>
<p><em>CosmicConservative&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4225' rel="nofollow">The coming Obama thugocracy?</a></em></p>
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