Resolved: James Bond is actually a super hero.
Discuss.
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Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.
Resolved: James Bond is actually a super hero.
Discuss.
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He’s not a superhero. He has no distinctive costume, no secret identity, and no superpowers.
To elaborate on the last point, each his personal abilities are within the Hollywood handwaving distance of what’s theoretically plausible for a highly talented and skilled human. There are gadget-and-training based superheroes, and James Bond does have gadgets (particularly the Roger Moore interpretation of the character), but his gadgets are not as powerful, as distinctive, or as large a departure from non-superhero gadgets as Batman’s or Iron Man’s gadgets. Not even close.
Put James Bond into a superhero-populated world, and he’s clearly a badass normal by comparison.
I dunno man, I haven’t seen every Bond movie, but he’s often seemed like a guy with Charles Atlas Superpowers to me. He was clearly doing stuff in the last Bond film on more than one occasion that would kill a normal mortal.
Some of those Bond cars would be right up Batman’s alley, gadget-wise.
There are acknowledged superheroes and supervillains who never wear tights.
A defining characteristic of superpowers is that within the context of the fictional world, the ability is special to the point of uniqueness, far beyond what any mere mortal could aspire to without a complicated origin story.
Bond’s endurance and resiliency may be far beyond any normal human in real life, but they’re unremarkable in the context of the world. I seem to recal several secondary characters in the world surviving similar amounts of abuse when the plot calls for their survival. Also keep in mind the reactions of the other characters in the world, who consider Bond to be one of the best (if not the best) at what he does, but not a superhuman.
If Bond’s a superhero on those grounds, then you also need to grant superhero status to Captain Kirk, Indiana Jones, John McClane, Jack Bauer, and just about any Arnold Scharzeneggar or Sylvester Stallone character.
Basically, don’t confuse Made of Iron with Nigh Invulnerability.
Movies yes, books no.
You’re looking in the wrong direction for his superpower, Maniakes. Basically, he’s preternaturally lucky.
My household discussed this recently! Our argument is that if you can include Batman (no superpowers at all) and Captain America (no superhuman powers, although he has the ultimate in strength, etc. for a human) or Iron Man (all modifications are technological) then why not the Lone Ranger? Or Zorro? Basically anyone in a mask who fights injustice with *some* special abilities might qualify.Â
We didn’t think of Bond. I would disqualify him because he has neither supernatural powers NOR a secret identity or mask/costume.  I think if you’ve got powers, you don’t need a secret identity to qualify, and if you’ve got a secret identity and fight crime in a specialized way you qualify even without superpowers, but if you fight crime as yourself and use only gadgets you don’t. But it’s a close call.
Don’t forget Jason Borne, Jack Ryan, and Mitch Rapp.
Jason Bourne is a tool… and I hate that the last two "Bond" movies are merely Bourne remakes.
chad’s last blog post..That’s Some Fondue You Got There
James Bond, like Jason Bourne, is kind of a Hitman with a Heart. He has a license to kill, but he’s restricted to some degree by his government. Just to some degree.
During the early superhero days, like in the ’40′s, no one would call a spy a ‘hero’. Spies were devious, sneaky types who couldn’t be trusted. But in the ’60′s, the cold war made spies and assassins a necessity, so the west tried to feel better about that by making spy/assassins clever, quick-thinking heroic types.
Now that we’re fighting terrorists, we need tougher spies like Bourne, and fiction reflects that.
James Bond is Batman in normal clothes. And before someone says "James Bond has no secret identity" James Bond IS a secret identity that’s the "secret" part of "secret agent."
James Bond is portrayed as a human being who operates at the optimal range of human ability both physically and mentally. (Well, maybe even emotionally). I make that point in my own review of Quantum of Solace.
http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4294
Yes he’s a Superhero, but he’s a Batman, or a Green Arrow or even a Punisher or Shadow type of superhero. He is "super" because he is always operating at the maximum ability of a human being, which no human being can do.
I like the Craig Bond. As far as I’m concerned they can take the Roger Moore versions and create a reef off Australia with them. I’m glad we’re back to a gritty, morally ambiguous secret agent instead of a candy-store gadget hound.
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Game Review: WoW – Wrath of the Lich King
By the way:
Superheroes without secret identities:
Captain America (Everyone knew he was Steve Rogers)
Mr. Fantastic (Everyone knows he is Reed Richards)
Invisible Girl (ditto, as Mrs. Richards)
Well, the whole Fantastic Four, actually
Dr. Strange
Namor, the Submariner
etc… there are literally dozens of Superheros without secret identities.
Superheroes without super powers:
Batman (and Robin, and Batgirl…)
Catwoman
Green Arrow (he’s pretty good with a bow…)
Captain America (he’s on steroids maybe….)
Punisher
Canary
Iron man (yes he has super gadgets, but that’s different)
Rawhide Kid (yes, he’s a superhero)
etc.. I admit there are fewer superheros without superpowers than superheros without secret identities, but there are a lot of them none the less.
So arguments for or against Bond as a superhero based on his lack of secret identity or lack of super powers would invalidate some of the most revered superheros in comicdom.
On the other hand, as was noted, putting Bond in the Superhero category opens the door up for a lot of literary figures, including other secret agents, or folks like Indiana Jones.
So the question we should be asking would be who would win in a fight between James Bond and the following:
Indiana Jones
Rambo
Jason Bourne
James Kirk
John McClane
I’m pretty sure Bond would kick all their butts, most of them combined. Of that group Rambo might be the one to look out for.
But still, "superhero" is such a vague term that it is impossible to definitively answer this (which is why Dean posed the question in the first place).
As far as I’m concerned Bond is a superhero and is unique among secret agents both in mythology and in his longevity. From a Hollywood perspective you don’t get much mor super, that’s for sure.
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Game Review: WoW – Wrath of the Lich King
But is there anyone who is traditionally considered a superhero who doesn’t have *either* special powers or a secret identity?
So the question we should be asking would be who would win in a fight between James Bond and the following
It depends on two things:
1. On whose show does the fight take place?
2. Does Kirk have the Enterprise with him?
Elizabeth:
Superheroes without super powers or secret identity? Well, I think I already pointed out that being a secret agent IS a secret identity, so Bond has one if that becomes important to the discussion. In fact Bond has an infinite number of secret identities, fully empowered by all the documentation needed by his secret government agency which churns them out like butter.
The only superhero I can think of who lacks secret identity AND super powers is Captain America, although someone might argue that, since he is augmented with the super-soldier serum. But that just makes him stronger and faster, not super strong nor super fast. There are stronger humans than CA and faster ones, but probably no "normal" human who is stonger AND faster than CA.
Eric:
If Kirk has the enterprise then it’s not Kirk, it’s the Enterprise. Even so I’d still put my money on Bond. After all, he only has to rip out a few wires to take the Enterprise out of the equation.
Of course the whole question of “whose world is it in?” comes into play. I still remember the silly “Superman vs. Spiderman” battle where they fought to a draw. Are you kidding me? Superman could kill Spiderman with a well-aimed loogey.
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Game Review: WoW – Wrath of the Lich King
Bond needs to get to the Enterprise first. Maybe he could seduce a female crew member, but a seduction contest between Kirk and Bond is an even money bet.
As for Indiana Jones, he survived a nuclear blast by taking shelter in a refrigerator. If a nuke couldn’t take Jones down, what could Bond do to him?
Eric:
Heh, it was a LEAD-LINED refrigerator man! It would have protected Superman from KRYPTONITE.
Actually I liked your comment about the relative equivalence of Bond’s and Kirk’s seductive prowess. But, yes, all Bond would have to do is spend five minutes with Uhuru and the Enterprise would be so much reaction mass. Who is Kirk going to seduce to get to Bond? M? Pleeze.
Here are a couple of other factors to take into account in the "is Bond a superhero" question.
Other than the "secret identity" and "super power" question there are usually at least two other attributes that separate super heroes from "normal" people and super villains.
1. Altruism. Super heroes typically are not paid for their work. Bond is. There are exceptions to this, but it’s a pretty good rule.
2. Lethality. Bond kills. Sometimes with relish. Sometimes with indifference. In general super heroes try not to kill. This is why Bond would take down Kirk, Jones or McLane, and why Rambo might be a challenge for him.
In fact if I were to make an argument AGAINST superhero status for James Bond, it would probably be based on the lack of altruism and the pronounced lethality of the man.Â
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Game Review: WoW – Wrath of the Lich King
Regarding Killing:
Cap America killed many many Nazis, without a bit of remorse.
Sliding into the anti-hero, the Punisher, Wolverine, The Man With No Name (Clint), John McClane, Jack Bauer etc. killed pretty much whatever needed killing, and slept pretty well at night too.
Kristian H’s last blog post..The Sagan Diary, Stardust
Kristian:
I think most people see a distinction between wartime killing and killing in a hero/villain encounter.Â
Anti-heroes are anti-heroes, and it is unclear at this time from this conversation whether The Man With No Name, Jack Bauer, John McClane or even Han Solo are "super" heroes or not.
Which leaves the Punisher and Wolverine from your list.
In his time with the X-Men Wolverine killed rarely and only after much agonizing. In fact his internal battles over his violent tendencies provide a good example of why "super heroes" generally don’t kill.
Then there’s the Punisher. A rare, rare exception to the rule… And one that definitely deserves the title "anti-hero."
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Game Review: WoW – Wrath of the Lich King
Well, regarding the killing, pretty much every comic stopped killing post Seduction of the Innocent (1954, post Golden Age, pre-Silver Age) / Comic Code Authority. It is hard to compare pre-SoI heroes to post, except that sometime after the Death of the Phoenix the strangle hold that the CCA had on newstand sales began to falter and the more extreme behaviors became more explicit in the comics.
So I guess bringing up GA Cap America may have been unfair in a list of Silver and Post Silver age heroes.
Have y’all figured out that I am geek yet?
Kristian H’s last blog post..The Sagan Diary, Stardust
Cosmic,
You list superheroes without powers and on that list you have, "Canary." I’m assuming you mean Black Canary. If so you’re incorrect about her not having powers. She has a sonic scream power.
Resolved: James Bond is actually a super hero.
Well, I *did* catch Roger Moore in the closet trying on some tights.
Kevin:
OK, I guess I have to revoke my "nerd" card… You’re right. I’ll replace Black Canary with Nightwing, howabout that? That’s what I get for responding from memory on my lunch break…
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Romo vs. Cutler, chapter 4
Added just to add it:
Isn’t "007" a secret identity? And is "James Bond" his real name anyway?
Also, why shouldn’t a snazzy suit qualify as a superhero uniform anyway?
Superhero secret identities imply a double-life. Batman and Bruce Wayne are two completely different identities sharing one person. Likewise with Superman and Clark Kent. 007 and James Bond are well-known to be different names for the same identity, and if he ever had a different identity, that identity was abandoned when he became Bond.
Superhero costumes must follow the Jayne Cobb’s Hat Principle:
“You see a man walk down the street wearing a hat [or costume]Â like that, and you know he’s not afraid of anything.”
007 is an MI6 identifier and nothing more. "00" is the status, "7" is the agent number. Like noted in Casino Royale you don’t get "00 status" until you kill two people.
And "James Bond" is the real name. Again, looking at Casino Royale, Bond did away with the cover name and background when entering the poker tournament because the villain already knew who he really was.
It would seem to me that the definition of super hero is the protagonist of a story set in a super-world.Â
For example, Iron-Man is a super-hero but Johnie Rico, the protagonist of Starship troopers isn’t, despite the fact that both wear really cool power armor and kick some ass. Similarly, characters very like the Punisher are not uncommon in cinema but since their stories are not set in a super-universe, they are just heroic vigilanties, not super heros.Â
Dave Justus’s last blog post..Pirates take ‘super tanker? towards Somalia
Dave:
So, basically, you are a superhero relativist? There’s no such thing as an objective "superhero" there is only context which provides a distinction? You must be a liberal. ;)
However, you make a valid point. Clearly a person in a Starship Troopers power suit transported back to 1948 Des Moines Iowa would be "super" and might even be a "hero". And in fact many "superheroes" are quite clearly individuals who are simply weilding advanced technology. Iron Man certainly qualifies, as do Green Lantern and Nova, both of whom are essentially interstellar policemen wearing the equipment required by their job. But nobody would argue that Iron Man does not qualify as a "superhero."
But would Green Lantern be a "superhero" on the planet of Green Lanterns, surrounded by millions of fellow power ring wearers?
I guess I would have to agree that environment and context plays a major role in deciding the "superhero" status of an individual.
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Back to the "secret identity" and James Bond thing.
A secret identity is something that has a purpose. It’s purpose is to protect the family and loved ones of the person who is secretly playing the hero.
James Bond does this all the time when he adopts whatever name and profession is required to fool his enemies. As I said before Bond doesn’t have a single secret identity, he has an infinite supply of them.
When he DOES identify himself as his real name, that’ no different than the myriad of times in comicdom when a superhero’s secret identity is exposed for plot purposes. Saying that he gave up his secret identity and therefore is not a superhero would invalidate Captain America, the Fantastic Four, Professor X and a myriad of other superheros from claiming that title.
One thing we havent’ talked about is superhero as archetype. Not all superheroes are archtypes but many are, especially many of the best known ones. Superman is the archetype of the unstoppable force, Batman is the archetype of the vigilante, Thor is the archtype of the Thunder God, Professor X is the archtype of the psychic genius, The Human Torch is the archtype of the elemental (as is Storm), Dr. Strange is the archetype of the wizard, Iron Fist is the archetype of the spiritual martial artist, etc…
Bond certainly is the archetype of the secret agent.
CosmicConservative’s last blog post..Tube Blues?
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