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	<title>Comments on: Improving recounts and disputed elections</title>
	<atom:link href="http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166874</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 07:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166874</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand what you are even talking about. In every recount I can think of except Florida there has been one clear and consistent standard.

Recount until the Democrat wins.

It works. It&#039;s consistent. It makes the children happy.

May as well stick with it.

&lt;em&gt;CosmicConservative&#039;s last blog post..&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4551&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Moon River&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand what you are even talking about. In every recount I can think of except Florida there has been one clear and consistent standard.</p>
<p>Recount until the Democrat wins.</p>
<p>It works. It&#8217;s consistent. It makes the children happy.</p>
<p>May as well stick with it.</p>
<p><em>CosmicConservative&#8217;s last blog post..<a href='http://www.cosmicconservative.com/weblog/?p=4551' rel="nofollow">Moon River</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Joe456</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166866</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe456</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166866</guid>
		<description>We won&#039;t have honest elections until we get rid of the recount till the democrat wins rule. &quot;Found&quot; ballots are a invite to fraud, and we seem have enough found ballots here to have changed the results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We won&#8217;t have honest elections until we get rid of the recount till the democrat wins rule. &quot;Found&quot; ballots are a invite to fraud, and we seem have enough found ballots here to have changed the results.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Rall (Maniakes)</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166864</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Rall (Maniakes)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166864</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad to hear that at least some places are doing things right.

California prints the instructions from point 1 on the ballot, but &quot;intent of the voter&quot; is the legal standard. For point 2, I think the scan machine spits out overvotes, but there&#039;s no verification for undervotes or misvotes. Some precincts use voting machines, but they&#039;re the full Diebold-style black box monstrosities rather than a way of preparing a paper ballot. I don&#039;t know about point 4.

The key part of my plan for minimizing opportunities for humans to screw things up is to make the counting standard objective and to make the machine count final unless audits turn up evidence that the machines are miscounting the ballots. There&#039;s still room to screw things up -- voters can fill in the wrong oval and not check the readout on the machine, absentees can&#039;t check the readout at all, the audit hand-count can get the count wrong, and my plan does nothing about old-fashioned registration fraud -- but less than in the current system in most states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad to hear that at least some places are doing things right.</p>
<p>California prints the instructions from point 1 on the ballot, but &quot;intent of the voter&quot; is the legal standard. For point 2, I think the scan machine spits out overvotes, but there&#8217;s no verification for undervotes or misvotes. Some precincts use voting machines, but they&#8217;re the full Diebold-style black box monstrosities rather than a way of preparing a paper ballot. I don&#8217;t know about point 4.</p>
<p>The key part of my plan for minimizing opportunities for humans to screw things up is to make the counting standard objective and to make the machine count final unless audits turn up evidence that the machines are miscounting the ballots. There&#8217;s still room to screw things up &#8212; voters can fill in the wrong oval and not check the readout on the machine, absentees can&#8217;t check the readout at all, the audit hand-count can get the count wrong, and my plan does nothing about old-fashioned registration fraud &#8212; but less than in the current system in most states.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin D.</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166863</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166863</guid>
		<description>Eric,

I worked tech support Election Day for a company that makes electronic ballot machines and they pretty much already do everything you listed to one degree or another.

I won&#039;t go into details but never underestimate the ability of a user (voter/ballot counter) to still frak it up.Â  No system is going to operate perfectly as long as people are still involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>I worked tech support Election Day for a company that makes electronic ballot machines and they pretty much already do everything you listed to one degree or another.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t go into details but never underestimate the ability of a user (voter/ballot counter) to still frak it up.Â  No system is going to operate perfectly as long as people are still involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166862</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2008/12/20/improving-recounts-and-disputed-elections/#comment-166862</guid>
		<description>That all looks like exactly how they do it in Michigan, except the shredder part.

We should acknowledge, however, that no matter what it &quot;feels&quot; like, paper ballots are less reliable than electronic.

But otherwise, I&#039;m surprised every state doesn&#039;t do it this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That all looks like exactly how they do it in Michigan, except the shredder part.</p>
<p>We should acknowledge, however, that no matter what it &quot;feels&quot; like, paper ballots are less reliable than electronic.</p>
<p>But otherwise, I&#8217;m surprised every state doesn&#8217;t do it this way.</p>
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