Find a way to feed the children of the miscreants that leech of our system while simultaneously cutting off the welfare system and you’ll be a hero.

I’ve known kids that were on welfare. Not food stamps, but actually sent government food in plain white boxes. These people had nothing. Some of these kids didn’t grow up to be successful, most of them exceeded their parent’s way of life and did just fine. They are at least working poor or working class. Without welfare I am positive none of them would have had that chance and they all definitely would have turned to crime, if anything, out of desperation to survive.

What about the mentally ill? Screw those people too, eh? Ever spoken to an acute schizophrenic? Yeah, a job at The Gap is truly challenging to some of these people. Sorry, but you need to find a way to humanely deal with a lot of people other then welfare before it can be taken away.

I suppose if you take the unethical viewpoint that people who are unable to make it deserve to starve, people who are ignorant deserve to be ripped off, and people who are handicapped, mentally handicapped, or otherwise disadvantaged aren’t your problem, then you can start your own country and have it live in the dark ages. Most developed nations, or nations that are considered post-industrial, have welfare.

Deal with it.

When a corporation or other business rips someone off, it’s usually because the person was either willing or ignorant enough to be ripped off.  The consumer has the choice on whether or not to give the business the money as you have in your case.  They do not have that choice with taxes – they will be paid or people with guns will show up and take you to jail.  Period.

Speaking of taxation as money taken at gunpoint isn’t something that really resonates with me. Especially when so many corporations are basically able to rip people off without paying any penalty at all. Which happens a lot.

I agree in school choice. I don’t believe that taxation for essential services is theft or some kind of violation. Indeed, you Dave obviously support the war in Iraq, as do I. So, do you support paying for that war "at gunpoint?" After all, the taxes that support it come out of everyone’s pocket who pays taxes.

Again, you’re missing the point here.  The people who pay dues to the condo association decided not to plow those roads, and thereby save money.  Those clean roads the government provided were paid for with money taken more or less at gunpoint. It’s easy to spend other people’s money.

Don’t assume just because it’s better service that it makes economic sense.  If the government provides everyone with a gold-plated marble toilet, that doesn’t necessarily mean we’re all richer, even if we feel that way for 10 minutes a day. It may actually be a huge misallocation of resources.

The whole point of having free markets is to have free people make those decisions about where their money goes.

I can only note that if it were the market alone, many kids would never get to go to school in the first place.

I knew kids like that.  Why should they get an education and a job, when they can live off gov’t welfare instead, or sell illegal drugs at a markup that would make a Saudi sheik drool?

In a truly free market, they would either starve or find a marketable skill. 

Under the current system, we have institutions whose main functions are teacher employment, daycare, and indoctrination, with any actual education virtually an afterthought.

And they only operate some eight months out of the year. Originally, this was done so that students could work on the farms, because 90% of people lived on farms when shools were established here. Today it’s just some absurd notion that teaching is so important that teachers deserve four months of paid vacation (but whether the students spend that time learning, apparently, is not that important). It’s a travesty.

That’s exactly what your choice is if you don’t like how some government-run service is provided. My friends in the Seattle area are about as happy about the government’s snow removal service as you are about your condo association’s snow removal service.

Condo associations are usually owned by the unit owners, who elect the board and provide its funding. Your landlord may not live there since he’s renting the unit to you, but he ought to care how liveable the unit is because that affects how much he can charge for the unit. You might want to try complaining to him.

The power of the market is that it forces competition and makes good customer service more likely. Its downside is when companies can lock people into purchases or contracts that are difficult to escape. For example, I didn’t know the private owners of the area I live in were jerks who usually dragged their feet whenever there was a snowstorm and did a piss-poor job of keeping the streets driveable. Until I complained to one of the neighbors and they laughed ruefully and said it was always this way. Frickin’ great. Now my choice is, what, MOVE? Oh thank you very much, I’m already locked into a lease and I don’t have the funds or the energy to move immediately. Complaints to the owners fall on deaf ears, they don’t give a damn because they know most of their customers can’t move. A complaint to the city council and the mayor’s office would undoubtedly get a lot more attention, but oooh, guess what? They aren’t responsible for these streets. So here we are just having to be stuck with irresponsible owners.

Markets need government regulation. And, frankly, governments need incentive to try to bring market forces to bear on their services. But I see no easy answer on either side of the equation.

The advantage of the free market is not that private companies get it right every time; quite clearly they don’t. The big advantage of the free market is you get to choose who you do business with. If your private school sucks, you can always send your children to a different one. But if your public school sucks, you’re stuck paying for it anyway and you can’t send your kids elsewhere unless you’re rich enough to pay for both the public and the private school

I know a whole lot of people who WISH their total debt was significantly less than their total wealth.

Can’t say I agree with Dave that private companies would do a better job of administering roads and education. I’ve worked for too many private companies that are incompetent and dishonest to believe that, and I’ve seen government services that easily excelled what the private sector offered. Indeed, I’ve seen that up close many times, including just a few weeks ago, when the -private- roads near my home remained unplowed after a major snowstorm for days because the condo association didn’t feel like paying, but all the people on PUBLIC roads had salted and properly shoveled roads within hours.

It is simply wrong to suggest that the market always does better. The market has some major advantages, but it has disadvantages too.

Well, yes, private companies probably would do a better job of administering roads and education (and don’t think those are free goods now) as they do with virtually all goods and services not involving the state’s monopoly on force.

How many Bridges to Nowhere do we need?  Japan once built a $12B bridge that was used by 12 people a day.  This is not good for the economy.