Comments on: And Now, Single Fatherhood by Choice http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/ Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy. Wed, 23 May 2012 12:36:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: zach http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167246 zach Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:58:07 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167246 that's fair enough. that’s fair enough.

]]> By: Dean Esmay http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167231 Dean Esmay Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:14:24 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167231 Well, there's the <a href="http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/the_mens_marriage_strike.php" rel="nofollow">Marriage Strike Movement</a> to start with.  Then there's just all my experience with men who've been burned on divorces and ripped away from their kids. I'll tell you honestly that, after the pain of separation (which is still intense pretty much daily with me), while I'd be interested in having another kid or two (I'd love to have a daughter), I'm still pretty gunshy and am afraid of the very thought of getting married again. I wouldn't pay a surrogate, as I have issues with that and think it's a bad idea, but if I have to admit the thought is still rather attractive. I think we really have here is only a bunch of anecdotal evidence. I doubt any firm study has been done on the question. On the flip side, Glenn's pretty obviously writing an opinion column here, so it shouldn't be necessary to demand absolute and unequivocal raw numbers--especially as they probably don't exist anyway. So you can find it a reasonable speculation or not. It's an op-ed statement. Well, there’s the Marriage Strike Movement to start with.  Then there’s just all my experience with men who’ve been burned on divorces and ripped away from their kids. I’ll tell you honestly that, after the pain of separation (which is still intense pretty much daily with me), while I’d be interested in having another kid or two (I’d love to have a daughter), I’m still pretty gunshy and am afraid of the very thought of getting married again. I wouldn’t pay a surrogate, as I have issues with that and think it’s a bad idea, but if I have to admit the thought is still rather attractive.

I think we really have here is only a bunch of anecdotal evidence. I doubt any firm study has been done on the question. On the flip side, Glenn’s pretty obviously writing an opinion column here, so it shouldn’t be necessary to demand absolute and unequivocal raw numbers–especially as they probably don’t exist anyway. So you can find it a reasonable speculation or not. It’s an op-ed statement.

]]> By: zach http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167230 zach Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:48:34 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167230 Sessions, To clarify, what I was getting at was more that since Clay doesn't figure at all in the point Glenn is making, but rather is buried deep within an article Glenn is excerpting for other reasons, why are you coming down on him? Dean, what makes you think that Glenn is right? I'm not saying he's wrong, but if I had to guess, I'd guess that surrogacy would be the choice for men who either want to be single by choice simply because they don't want a wife, or else can't find the woman they want and are sick of waiting. Sort of the standard reasons that get cited by single mothers by choice. Custody issues may factor in for some, but it seems a stretch to me to suggest that it's the dominant factor. I'd be willing to be convinced otherwise, but haven't seen much evidence circumstantial or otherwise. Certainly none is presented in this article, which was my main gripe to begin with. Sessions,

To clarify, what I was getting at was more that since Clay doesn’t figure at all in the point Glenn is making, but rather is buried deep within an article Glenn is excerpting for other reasons, why are you coming down on him?

Dean,

what makes you think that Glenn is right? I’m not saying he’s wrong, but if I had to guess, I’d guess that surrogacy would be the choice for men who either want to be single by choice simply because they don’t want a wife, or else can’t find the woman they want and are sick of waiting. Sort of the standard reasons that get cited by single mothers by choice. Custody issues may factor in for some, but it seems a stretch to me to suggest that it’s the dominant factor. I’d be willing to be convinced otherwise, but haven’t seen much evidence circumstantial or otherwise. Certainly none is presented in this article, which was my main gripe to begin with.

]]> By: Dean Esmay http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167224 Dean Esmay Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:43:12 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167224 I have no idea. Seriously. I have no idea. Seriously.

]]> By: Mc Kiernan http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167223 Mc Kiernan Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:27:53 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167223 So whatever  happened <a href="../../02/in-her-own-words-a-dec-19-email-from-christine-maggiore/" rel="nofollow">to this post</a> ? i.e.       http://www.deanesmay.com/2009/01/02/in-her-own-words-a-dec-19-email-from-christine-maggiore/ Was it a functional loss by the thought police ? So whatever  happened to this post ?

i.e.       http://www.deanesmay.com/2009/01/02/in-her-own-words-a-dec-19-email-from-christine-maggiore/

Was it a functional loss by the thought police ?

]]> By: Sessions http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167222 Sessions Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:25:54 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167222 zach, Glenn published the CNN article in this blog.  Should he check all his references for factual content before posting them? Ummm, yeah. Inaccuracies once removed are still inaccuracies. zach,
Glenn published the CNN article in this blog.  Should he check all his references for factual content before posting them?

Ummm, yeah.

Inaccuracies once removed are still inaccuracies.

]]> By: Dean Esmay http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167221 Dean Esmay Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:17:26 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167221 Well, that's a good point; I think Glenn's probably right on that point, but I must admit I can't say I KNOW he's right on that point. It would require some way of doing a serious survey of men who do this. Well, that’s a good point; I think Glenn’s probably right on that point, but I must admit I can’t say I KNOW he’s right on that point. It would require some way of doing a serious survey of men who do this.

]]> By: zach http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167220 zach Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:15:53 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167220 Sessions, maybe you should find fault with the quoted CNN article, and not with Glenn - who doesn't even mention Clay in the part of this post that he authored. Sessions,

maybe you should find fault with the quoted CNN article, and not with Glenn – who doesn’t even mention Clay in the part of this post that he authored.

]]> By: zach http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167219 zach Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:12:58 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167219 Dean, I understand that all of those things are real issues, and I'm not attempting to argue or belittle any of that.  I'm narrowly questioning Glenn's assertion that the main reason for men to choose surrogacy or single fatherhood by choice is due to custody fears. Dean,

I understand that all of those things are real issues, and I’m not attempting to argue or belittle any of that.  I’m narrowly questioning Glenn’s assertion that the main reason for men to choose surrogacy or single fatherhood by choice is due to custody fears.

]]> By: Dean Esmay http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167209 Dean Esmay Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:32:58 +0000 http://deanesmay.com/2009/01/05/and-now-single-fatherhood-by-choice/#comment-167209 Well, I would think the endless stream of evidence that this is exactly at happens to so many men would be enough for you there, Zach. Most men who love their kids KNOW they can lose them if the mother decides she wants to interfere. It's just reality, I've seen it time and time and time again over the last 20 years myself among my father friends who got divorced, only to be treated like a stalker, a psychopath, and a bum for wanting to spend time with their kids (which is something that is the child's right, by the way, not just the father's). Now, without doubt, some fathers in this situation are fools, because they don't realize they CAN fight for their children's rights. In other cases, they simply don't know how. Well, I would think the endless stream of evidence that this is exactly at happens to so many men would be enough for you there, Zach. Most men who love their kids KNOW they can lose them if the mother decides she wants to interfere. It’s just reality, I’ve seen it time and time and time again over the last 20 years myself among my father friends who got divorced, only to be treated like a stalker, a psychopath, and a bum for wanting to spend time with their kids (which is something that is the child’s right, by the way, not just the father’s).

Now, without doubt, some fathers in this situation are fools, because they don’t realize they CAN fight for their children’s rights. In other cases, they simply don’t know how.

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