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	<title>Comments on: Not Helping</title>
	<atom:link href="http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/</link>
	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Gersh</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170260</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Gersh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170260</guid>
		<description>Dean - in what context did that woman pour oil on her boyfriend? Was it in a context that was condoned by her church? Was it even suggested that her (Christian) pastor would possibly condone the pouring of boiling oil?

And if we go to death row, we might very well find that the majority of the inmates were born into the majority religion of the surrounding culture. But let us then inquire into how many have converted to Christianity since their conviction, then into how many converted to Islam after their conviction.

No need to inquire, since we all know the answers to those questions. Like Abu Graib, the question is not so much about what the guards did, but more about how the established authority reacted. In Abu Graib the perpetrators were tried and convicted. When Israeli children are burned alive, the muslim establishment shows public displays of approval and even ecstasy. Huge difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean &#8211; in what context did that woman pour oil on her boyfriend? Was it in a context that was condoned by her church? Was it even suggested that her (Christian) pastor would possibly condone the pouring of boiling oil?</p>
<p>And if we go to death row, we might very well find that the majority of the inmates were born into the majority religion of the surrounding culture. But let us then inquire into how many have converted to Christianity since their conviction, then into how many converted to Islam after their conviction.</p>
<p>No need to inquire, since we all know the answers to those questions. Like Abu Graib, the question is not so much about what the guards did, but more about how the established authority reacted. In Abu Graib the perpetrators were tried and convicted. When Israeli children are burned alive, the muslim establishment shows public displays of approval and even ecstasy. Huge difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Coleman</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170253</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170253</guid>
		<description>Urk, looks like you guys did get this story, which I just posted up top.  Um, I&#039;ll fix this.  

Then I&#039;ll cut off my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Urk, looks like you guys did get this story, which I just posted up top.  Um, I&#8217;ll fix this.  </p>
<p>Then I&#8217;ll cut off my head.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Esmay</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170249</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Esmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170249</guid>
		<description>In what way does it seem that way, Deadrody, except in the case of people who are obsessed with this one religion? You know, I&#039;m quite certain that if I took a tour of all the people currently on Death Row in the United States, I would discover that most of them grew up with some sort of Christian background. Baptized as infants at least, possibly having spent some time at Sunday School and such as kids. So what would that prove?

If this guy were not a Muslim, he&#039;d just be a man who turned himself in for burning his ex-girlfriend, and we probably wouldn&#039;t be talking about him. Last year a woman poured a pot of boiling oil on her boyfriend in Detroit. He died within hours, essentially having been deep-fried to death in his bed. You probably didn&#039;t hear about it. Was that because neither of them were Muslims, or what? Would you even care about this case if there were no Muslim connection for you to fret about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In what way does it seem that way, Deadrody, except in the case of people who are obsessed with this one religion? You know, I&#8217;m quite certain that if I took a tour of all the people currently on Death Row in the United States, I would discover that most of them grew up with some sort of Christian background. Baptized as infants at least, possibly having spent some time at Sunday School and such as kids. So what would that prove?</p>
<p>If this guy were not a Muslim, he&#8217;d just be a man who turned himself in for burning his ex-girlfriend, and we probably wouldn&#8217;t be talking about him. Last year a woman poured a pot of boiling oil on her boyfriend in Detroit. He died within hours, essentially having been deep-fried to death in his bed. You probably didn&#8217;t hear about it. Was that because neither of them were Muslims, or what? Would you even care about this case if there were no Muslim connection for you to fret about?</p>
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		<title>By: deadrody</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170242</link>
		<dc:creator>deadrody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170242</guid>
		<description>As an aside, though I&#039;m certainly in favor of weeding out the nuts, the crazies, and the evil among us, how exactly do you go about doing that when someone appears to act in accordance with a strict moral and religious code until that code goes a bit too far and results in a decapitation?

There is no legal answer.  That&#039;s the problem.  The only recourse is exactly as the original post suggests, an evolution of islam, and I&#039;m not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an aside, though I&#8217;m certainly in favor of weeding out the nuts, the crazies, and the evil among us, how exactly do you go about doing that when someone appears to act in accordance with a strict moral and religious code until that code goes a bit too far and results in a decapitation?</p>
<p>There is no legal answer.  That&#8217;s the problem.  The only recourse is exactly as the original post suggests, an evolution of islam, and I&#8217;m not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: deadrody</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170241</link>
		<dc:creator>deadrody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-170241</guid>
		<description>Nice try, John.  But is anybody buying that excuse ?

No.    You see, the problem is that there are always going to be people that are a little nuts, a little evil, easily influenced, or simply take things too far.  When your starting point is that &quot;decapitation for adultery is only authorized by a Sharia trial&quot; - something I would point out doesn&#039;t even legally EXIST in the US - how far does one have to stray to authorize decapitation all on their own ?

It doesn&#039;t seem to help that this little cult, err, religion, whatever, seems to hold the greatest attraction for the nuttiest, most evil, simplest minded people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice try, John.  But is anybody buying that excuse ?</p>
<p>No.    You see, the problem is that there are always going to be people that are a little nuts, a little evil, easily influenced, or simply take things too far.  When your starting point is that &#8220;decapitation for adultery is only authorized by a Sharia trial&#8221; &#8211; something I would point out doesn&#8217;t even legally EXIST in the US &#8211; how far does one have to stray to authorize decapitation all on their own ?</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t seem to help that this little cult, err, religion, whatever, seems to hold the greatest attraction for the nuttiest, most evil, simplest minded people.</p>
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		<title>By: John_B</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-169746</link>
		<dc:creator>John_B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-169746</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re making a category error in your argument.

Yes, &quot;in some circles&quot; this is considered appropriate behavior. That circle, however, does not include most Muslims nor does it include most interpretations of Islam. It is restricted to those who place higher value on &quot;honor&quot; than on their religion.

Shariah law does not authorize the decapitation of an adulterer except following a trial. The trial must include either a confession by the participants or the witness of four adult males who saw the actual penetration going on. Vigilante justice is not Islamic.

That&#039;s not &quot;apology&quot;, that&#039;s simply a fact.

I&#039;m sure that being raised in a Muslim environment played some role in this nut&#039;s behavior. I&#039;m even more confident that growing up in a tribal environment, with tribal values like &quot;face&quot; and &quot;honor&quot; played an even bigger role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re making a category error in your argument.</p>
<p>Yes, &#8220;in some circles&#8221; this is considered appropriate behavior. That circle, however, does not include most Muslims nor does it include most interpretations of Islam. It is restricted to those who place higher value on &#8220;honor&#8221; than on their religion.</p>
<p>Shariah law does not authorize the decapitation of an adulterer except following a trial. The trial must include either a confession by the participants or the witness of four adult males who saw the actual penetration going on. Vigilante justice is not Islamic.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not &#8220;apology&#8221;, that&#8217;s simply a fact.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that being raised in a Muslim environment played some role in this nut&#8217;s behavior. I&#8217;m even more confident that growing up in a tribal environment, with tribal values like &#8220;face&#8221; and &#8220;honor&#8221; played an even bigger role.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Gersh</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-169313</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Gersh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/02/15/not-helping/#comment-169313</guid>
		<description>You forgot to mention that the guy who allegedly beheaded his wife was the leader of the muslim &quot;Moderates,&quot; publishing a moderate muslim magazine for the last five years and all. If this is the &quot;moderate&quot; we can all see how the mainstream muslims are so bloodthirsty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot to mention that the guy who allegedly beheaded his wife was the leader of the muslim &#8220;Moderates,&#8221; publishing a moderate muslim magazine for the last five years and all. If this is the &#8220;moderate&#8221; we can all see how the mainstream muslims are so bloodthirsty.</p>
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