Joe Gandelman thinks maybe so, and he has facts to back it up.
I mostly agree that it’s so, by the way. And let me be honest about my own biases: back in the late ’80s and early ’90s, I found Rush Limbaugh a refreshing voice on the radio. He was funny–sometimes very funny–and he often made good points. Yes, he was sometimes obnoxious, and yes, sometimes his jokes were a little too cruel. But he was also saying things no one else had the guts to say, and in any case he was entertaining. Even though I disagreed with him frequently (but not always), he was at least a refreshing voice in our national political dialogue.
Fast forward 20 years, and now whenever I listen to Rush I’m disappointed; he’s less of a source of politically incorrect entertainment, and more of a voice of irrational partisan nastiness. (Oh, plus, he’s got too many damned commercials on his show.)
Of course, this isn’t only about Rush Limbaugh, but he’s the King of the Hill of talk radio on the right. A whole industry has spawned in his wake of conservative media celebrities, and many of them emulate him. Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity and Michelle Malkin and Debbie Schlussel (and to a lesser extent Bill O’Reilly) are basically making their livings by following in his footsteps.
Nowadays when I listen to conservative talk radio, I’m often appalled. Paranoia and rage seem to be the top agenda. A sense of humor and basic humility seem to be missing. As a non-conservative with some conservative views, I find this disappointing at best. On the issues, I’m still sympathetic to many conservative viewpoints. Indeed, I feel that conservatives are a vital, indispensable part of a healthy body politic. But all I seem to hear or see nowadays from that sector is rage and fear.
Mind you, there are honorable exceptions. Not every conservative is out of her mind, and not every conservative is shrieking nonsense. But man, it sure seems like there’s a lot of that.
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I agree with a lot of it, especially the comment about the Limbaugh show having outlived his usefulness, but I think the blogosphere occupies the role formerly held by talk radio, and I think the Republican party is a wreck for many reasons, and it flatters Rush too much to give him credit for that wreck.
And when I say the blogosphere occupies the role formerly held by talk radio, I mean I think, to use Joe’s terminology, a middlebrow medium has replaced a lowbrow medium.
i used to think o’reilly was as bad as the rest of them, but i actually started watching some of his stuff and my opinion of him has softened considerably. basically, i think he is an egomaniac, but who on television isn’t? and yes he obviously has a right-wing point of view, and is very vocal about it, and very argumentative about it. and yes, he often cuts people off and tries to bulldoze his way over some of the more milquetoast guests he has on. but unlike hannity et al, o’reilly i think has really carefully considered positions. for the most part he’s an honest debater, and with the right guest he sometimes engages in discussions of real and interesting substance. and all this from someone whose main objective is pure entertainment. i’d say that’s not too bad. probably more along the lines of who rush used to be (though i admit to total rush ignorance – have never listened to his show and likely never will).
zach:
Since every conservative I know laughs out loud at the proposition that O’Reilly is a “conservative” consider me unsurprised that you find his positions “carefully considered.”
On the topic of ACTUAL conservative talk radio, I think this whole premise is hilarious. Ten years ago people thought conservative talk radio was creating a right-wing powerhouse. The hard Left obviously STILL thinks so since they are determined to silence as much of it as possible as quickly as possible. Sometimes it is worth while to evaluate a premise from the perspective of your opposition to gain clarity on the issue.
Theodore Sturgeon’s Law applies to most things and it applies to Talk Radio as well. I usually keep my radio on the local talk radio station, KOA. KOA carries mostly conservative talk shows during the day, the two primary ones being Rush Limbaugh and local conservative Mike Rosen. Of the two I like Mike Rosen much more, although I rarely hear either of them since I work for a living. Mostly I listen to KOA because they have the best traffic and weather reports on my ride to and from work.
But I sometimes am out and about on errands for lunch and on those occasions Rush or Mike are usualyl on the air. I sometimes carpool with people who listen to other talk radio so I’ve heard a good bit of Dennis Prager, Sean Hannity, Hugh Hewitt and others.
Of that bunch I tend to like Hugh Hewitt best. Sean Hannity is too hyper for me, and I get sick of his flag-waving. Rush is sometimes entertaining but I’ve never liked Rush Limbaugh, his whole “talent on loan from God, half my brain tied behind my back just to make it fair” schtick turned me off from day one. But those on the Left who consider him some sort of wingnut who represents the unwashed rednecks of the country are deluding themselves. Rush is highly intelligent and his analysis on many political issues is quite astute. Plus he understands that talk radio is not a shrill exercise in hate-mongering, something the Left routinely accuses right-wing talk radio of, but the only true examples of shrill hate-mongering I’ve ever heard on the airwaves came from Air America, not from Rush, Sean or Hugh. Which, of course, is why Left wing talk radio fails so spectacularly. They think right-wing radio is all hate-speech and screaming (which it is not) and so they create shrill, hate-filled diatribes from the Left and put them on the air and wonder why their own ideological peers turn to NPR instead.
What is killing the “right” these days is that they have abandoned the core principles that Americans truly reward, and those are the principles of hard work, accountability, fiscal responsibility and national security. Well, they still have some credibility on national security anyway, but all the rest of the core conservative agenda Reagan articulated and championed has been abandoned, and because of that, so has the Republican party.
Since I don’t believe Rush Limbaugh or any other talk radio host has had any actual effect on our elected officials abandoning core conservative principles, I simply don’t see how they are “destroying” conservative movement. Our elected officials are the ones who have done the damage to the movement, not the yammering voices on the radio, right or left.
Dean,
I’ve never listened to talk radio in my life. But have you ever talked to rank-and-file democrats? Maybe it’s just living in a democratic stronghold (Ithaca, NY), but if you want raving partisan paranoia from the democratic perspective, you don’t need a radio. Often enough around here, you just need to wait for a sunny day and something mildly interesting in the news to see idiots holding up signs with democrat/liberal ravings scrawled all over them. Perhaps this is why Air America never caught on? (Too much availability of substitutes.)
Cosmic,
so in other words o’reilly is not a true scotsman. in terms of mainstream political thought, i think it’s uncontroversial that he is, by and large, a member of the right wing.
beyond that, though, why would whether you think he is or isn’t conservative have any bearing on whether or not i find his opinions carefully considered? my point is that the views he presents on air seem to have been arrived at without consulting anyone’s talking points. it has nothing to do with how palatable i find them.
zach:
Since “conservatism” is an ideology and “scotsman” is a racial identity, what he says and does has a direct impact on whether he is the first, but no impact on whether he is the second.
Based on what O’Reilly says and does I would say that he is more right of center than left of center, and on certain issues he is so far right that Leftists can’t conceive of him being anything but a certified “wingnut” but by and large I would call O’Reilly a “populist” not a “conservative.”
since all i ever implied was that he was right wing, i think you stand corrected. the scotsman remark was in reference to the fallacy of logic, in case that wasn’t clear (i can’t tell if your first sentence is responding to what i meant or what i wrote – levels upon levels here). of course none of that explains why you would be unsurprised that i find his opinions carefully considered because he doesn’t fit your definition of conservative.
Well, I don’t think I stand corrected. I continue to assert my opinion that Bill O’Reilly is more of a “populist” than a true “conservative.” He just happens to be a populist who leans a bit right of center is all.
To be fair it’s very hard to have any discussion about labels like “conservative” or “populist” or whatever, which is why I’ve put my words in quotes and said things like “I would call” instead of simply stating as fact that which is clearly opinion. O’Reilly himself says he is not conservative, do you put any weight in his “carefully considered” opinion of his own ideology?
since i never said he was conservative i’m fine letting him name his own philosophy.
but you still haven’t answered my question.
zach:
The subject of this thread is “Is CONSERVATIVE talk radio wrecking the right.” You wrote:
That is an explicit assertion that Bill O’Reilly is a conservative commentator. You can try to spin your words however you want, had you not written that I would not have challenged your assertion in the first place. Now you are saying you don’t think he is a conservative commentator, so we can both agree that your original comment was completely off topic and irrelevent.
I’m good with that.
Oh, and on your “you didn’t answer my question” thing, let me first ask you, do you define YOURSELF as “liberal”, “conservative” or some other ideology?
I *am* a conservative and I stopped listening to talk radio a long time ago. The reasons are twofold.
First, I find that most talk radio hosts, right or left, irritate me. I tune my radio for entertainment or education, not irritation. I listened to Rush Limbaugh for a short time back in the 90′s, but he is too much bombast. All that ditto-head crap and that constant shuffling of papers etc just grates on me.
Second, as Dean has also pointed out, talk radio has way too low of a content to commercial ratio. It seems that no matter what time of the day or night I tune in a talk station, I find myself in a commercial break that goes on and on and on and on – frequently all the way to my destination. I finally just gave up on it all.
I use XM now.
cosmic,
i define myself as politically a moderate. in general i support conservative fiscal policies and free trade, but i also believe the government has a role in ensuring the health and welfare of its citizens, and i reject any and all aspects of social conservatism.
if you think my original comment was off topic/irrelevant, that’s your prerogative. i was more addressing dean’s (and joe’s) assertion that right-wing radio is dominated by shrill partisanship and paranoiac rage. in that sense i had a negative opinion of o’reilly until i actually watched his show. ten thousand apologies if my thoughts on the subject were not the font of peerless wisdom you were hoping for.
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