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	<title>Comments on: GatesGate</title>
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	<description>Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.</description>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174802</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 17:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174802</guid>
		<description>... oh, and one other comment. It is no coincidence that Hillary Clinton has chosen this moment to begin asserting herself and presenting a much more Hawkish foreign policy approach than the equivocating, sniveling appeasement of her boss.

She can read polls too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; oh, and one other comment. It is no coincidence that Hillary Clinton has chosen this moment to begin asserting herself and presenting a much more Hawkish foreign policy approach than the equivocating, sniveling appeasement of her boss.</p>
<p>She can read polls too.</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174801</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 16:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174801</guid>
		<description>Derek, you may be right, and maybe Obama was already nosediving before this event. I think he was. But I think he still had some mojo left last week ans was pressuring &quot;moderate&quot; Democrats on Health Care using that remaining &quot;majority&quot; that supported him.

I try to react to the situations that I see, and from what I saw Obama was at the tipping point on healthcare Wednesday (which was why he was on TV, he and his team knew that), and instead of pulling back from the brink, with his Cambridge comments, he essentially plunged over the edge.

It is no coincidence, in my opinion that in the next two days after the Cambridge thing, you saw conservative Democrats openly rebel against Nancy Pelosi. MAYBE they would have done so anyway, but I don&#039;t think so. I think Obama personally offended THEM with his Cambridge comments and that was the straw that broke the camel&#039;s back.

Just my opinion of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek, you may be right, and maybe Obama was already nosediving before this event. I think he was. But I think he still had some mojo left last week ans was pressuring &#8220;moderate&#8221; Democrats on Health Care using that remaining &#8220;majority&#8221; that supported him.</p>
<p>I try to react to the situations that I see, and from what I saw Obama was at the tipping point on healthcare Wednesday (which was why he was on TV, he and his team knew that), and instead of pulling back from the brink, with his Cambridge comments, he essentially plunged over the edge.</p>
<p>It is no coincidence, in my opinion that in the next two days after the Cambridge thing, you saw conservative Democrats openly rebel against Nancy Pelosi. MAYBE they would have done so anyway, but I don&#8217;t think so. I think Obama personally offended THEM with his Cambridge comments and that was the straw that broke the camel&#8217;s back.</p>
<p>Just my opinion of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174797</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174797</guid>
		<description>CC: I think you&#039;re right in that the incident didn&#039;t HELP &quot;stop that bleeding.&quot;  I just think we were already &lt;em&gt;past&lt;/em&gt; the tipping point in public opinion on this issue before the President passed judgment on the Cambridge police.  There&#039;s enough out there already to make people question the reform  bill. The incident in question just makes it harder for the President to &quot;orate&quot; the reform into being.

foobarista: I like police officers. I like teachers. I like nurses. I like fire fighters. But unions, not so much. As none of is us as stupid as all of us, unions generate &quot;collective stupidity fields,&quot; where otherwise intelligent individuals subordinate their own opinions to the groupthink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CC: I think you&#8217;re right in that the incident didn&#8217;t HELP &#8220;stop that bleeding.&#8221;  I just think we were already <em>past</em> the tipping point in public opinion on this issue before the President passed judgment on the Cambridge police.  There&#8217;s enough out there already to make people question the reform  bill. The incident in question just makes it harder for the President to &#8220;orate&#8221; the reform into being.</p>
<p>foobarista: I like police officers. I like teachers. I like nurses. I like fire fighters. But unions, not so much. As none of is us as stupid as all of us, unions generate &#8220;collective stupidity fields,&#8221; where otherwise intelligent individuals subordinate their own opinions to the groupthink.</p>
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		<title>By: foobarista</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174796</link>
		<dc:creator>foobarista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 09:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174796</guid>
		<description>One other problem for O is this is the first time he&#039;s offended a powerful unionized group.*  This won&#039;t be forgotten.

Also, how many times has Obama said something and had to &quot;recalibrate&quot; or &quot;clarify&quot; it later?

*Not that I&#039;m a huge fan of cop unions - or prison guard unions - as they&#039;ve done much to bankrupt my home state of CA, but pissing them off needlessly isn&#039;t real smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other problem for O is this is the first time he&#8217;s offended a powerful unionized group.*  This won&#8217;t be forgotten.</p>
<p>Also, how many times has Obama said something and had to &#8220;recalibrate&#8221; or &#8220;clarify&#8221; it later?</p>
<p>*Not that I&#8217;m a huge fan of cop unions &#8211; or prison guard unions &#8211; as they&#8217;ve done much to bankrupt my home state of CA, but pissing them off needlessly isn&#8217;t real smart.</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174795</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 07:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174795</guid>
		<description>Derek:

It will be impossible to &quot;prove&quot; that this was the tipping point for health care. However, the polls showed a majority of Americans supported health care BEFORE this incident and a majority of Americans OPPOSED it AFTER this incident.

No matter what else happened in those two or three days, Obama did NOT get his message out.

However, a message DID get out those two or three days, it just wasn&#039;t the message Obama wanted to get out. As I said, I can&#039;t PROVE that this was a major reason in the shift from support to opposition in health care, but I can pretty much guarantee you that change in attitude vastly changed the willingness of &quot;moderate&quot; Democrats in the House to swallow another dose of hemlock (after the Cap and Tax debacle) for Obama.

My read on politics is that Obama had to stop that bleeding, and his whole dog and pony show on Wednesday was dedicated to doing so, and instead of the American people waking up Thursday morning saying &quot;hmmm, that Obama seems pretty convincing about health care&quot; they woke up saying &quot;Geez, Obama called the cops in Cambridge stupid? Really?&quot;

These things matter. His numbers have dropped a few more points today. Tomorrow or the next day we&#039;ll see the first poll results from polls taken only AFTER this incident. I suspect we will see another few points erosion in Obama&#039;s numbers, and when you are right at the 50% line in your approval ratings, those few points can be devastating to your ability to twist arms in Congress.

I&#039;ll be watching closely to see how things end up. But my gut tells me that Obama&#039;s core team in the White House is telling Obama &quot;Damn man, can&#039;t you keep your mouth shut about shit you don&#039;t know about?!?!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek:</p>
<p>It will be impossible to &#8220;prove&#8221; that this was the tipping point for health care. However, the polls showed a majority of Americans supported health care BEFORE this incident and a majority of Americans OPPOSED it AFTER this incident.</p>
<p>No matter what else happened in those two or three days, Obama did NOT get his message out.</p>
<p>However, a message DID get out those two or three days, it just wasn&#8217;t the message Obama wanted to get out. As I said, I can&#8217;t PROVE that this was a major reason in the shift from support to opposition in health care, but I can pretty much guarantee you that change in attitude vastly changed the willingness of &#8220;moderate&#8221; Democrats in the House to swallow another dose of hemlock (after the Cap and Tax debacle) for Obama.</p>
<p>My read on politics is that Obama had to stop that bleeding, and his whole dog and pony show on Wednesday was dedicated to doing so, and instead of the American people waking up Thursday morning saying &#8220;hmmm, that Obama seems pretty convincing about health care&#8221; they woke up saying &#8220;Geez, Obama called the cops in Cambridge stupid? Really?&#8221;</p>
<p>These things matter. His numbers have dropped a few more points today. Tomorrow or the next day we&#8217;ll see the first poll results from polls taken only AFTER this incident. I suspect we will see another few points erosion in Obama&#8217;s numbers, and when you are right at the 50% line in your approval ratings, those few points can be devastating to your ability to twist arms in Congress.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be watching closely to see how things end up. But my gut tells me that Obama&#8217;s core team in the White House is telling Obama &#8220;Damn man, can&#8217;t you keep your mouth shut about shit you don&#8217;t know about?!?!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174775</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174775</guid>
		<description>If President Obama so successfully &quot;diffused&quot; the situation, why is it that I keep seeing news stories, blog posts, and other comments about the controversy? 

It&#039;s probably because, while he admitted that his original comments were counterproductive, he didn&#039;t really apologize for them. And he&#039;s continued to inject himself into the situation, which is the antithesis of the first rule of holes.

I doubt this will the factor that derails health care reform. Instapundit&#039;s reports of ACORN rallies for reform becoming Tea Parties will have a greater effect, in my opinion.

It might, however, make the F.O.P. a little less willing to support him in 3 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If President Obama so successfully &#8220;diffused&#8221; the situation, why is it that I keep seeing news stories, blog posts, and other comments about the controversy? </p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably because, while he admitted that his original comments were counterproductive, he didn&#8217;t really apologize for them. And he&#8217;s continued to inject himself into the situation, which is the antithesis of the first rule of holes.</p>
<p>I doubt this will the factor that derails health care reform. Instapundit&#8217;s reports of ACORN rallies for reform becoming Tea Parties will have a greater effect, in my opinion.</p>
<p>It might, however, make the F.O.P. a little less willing to support him in 3 years.</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174758</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174758</guid>
		<description>RogerR:

We&#039;ll see how this turns out. I&#039;ll keep an eye on the polls, not the commentary here. Besides, Obama would never have offered his non-apology if he didn&#039;t agree with me that this was hurting him. The question is how much damage HAS been done, and how much more damage will be done by him saying he didn&#039;t &quot;calibrate&quot; his words properly.

If I were the police officer I&#039;d be saying &quot;calibrate? What&#039;s that supposed to mean? You said &#039;stupidly&#039; when &#039;imbecilic&#039; might have been better?&quot;

Classic non-apology behavior...

Also... you are missing a key point. This has already hurt him tremendously by taking virtually ALL of the momentum he was trying to build up on health care and putting that back to zero. If his health care bill now does not pass, this could very well be the reason why.

And if you don&#039;t think that would hurt Obama... well, I don&#039;t know what to say about that.

I will grant you this, it does show that Obama finally took heed of the first rule of holes and stopped digging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RogerR:</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll see how this turns out. I&#8217;ll keep an eye on the polls, not the commentary here. Besides, Obama would never have offered his non-apology if he didn&#8217;t agree with me that this was hurting him. The question is how much damage HAS been done, and how much more damage will be done by him saying he didn&#8217;t &#8220;calibrate&#8221; his words properly.</p>
<p>If I were the police officer I&#8217;d be saying &#8220;calibrate? What&#8217;s that supposed to mean? You said &#8216;stupidly&#8217; when &#8216;imbecilic&#8217; might have been better?&#8221;</p>
<p>Classic non-apology behavior&#8230;</p>
<p>Also&#8230; you are missing a key point. This has already hurt him tremendously by taking virtually ALL of the momentum he was trying to build up on health care and putting that back to zero. If his health care bill now does not pass, this could very well be the reason why.</p>
<p>And if you don&#8217;t think that would hurt Obama&#8230; well, I don&#8217;t know what to say about that.</p>
<p>I will grant you this, it does show that Obama finally took heed of the first rule of holes and stopped digging.</p>
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		<title>By: RogerR</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174753</link>
		<dc:creator>RogerR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174753</guid>
		<description>Looks like Obama has successfully diffused this rather quickly.

Looks like some here have vastly overestimated how much this will hurt him.

I agree his initial comments were counterproductive.  He has now admitted as much, and that&#039;s what most reasonable folks were looking for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like Obama has successfully diffused this rather quickly.</p>
<p>Looks like some here have vastly overestimated how much this will hurt him.</p>
<p>I agree his initial comments were counterproductive.  He has now admitted as much, and that&#8217;s what most reasonable folks were looking for.</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174746</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 20:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174746</guid>
		<description>.... and one more point. This not only demonstrates fundamental inexperience as an executive who is actually held accountable for his statements (as opposed to a Senator or community organizer who can say whatever pops into their heads), this demonstrates a really fundamental political incompetence. This whole thing erupted at Obama&#039;s healthcare political theater. Obama has essentially bet his Presidency on passing health care, and he did not keep his eye on THAT ball. Any sufficiently politically savvy person in his shoes when asked that question SHOULD have said, &quot;Thanks for that question, but tonight I&#039;m dealing with health care. Health care is the most important issue on the table right now. Do you have a question about health care?&quot;

The result was that for the next three or four days instead of stories about Obama&#039;s health care initiative and how it&#039;s going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, we get stories, editorials, interviews, etc. on the GatesGate thing.

In politics this is known as &quot;losing control of the narrative.&quot;

If it&#039;s this easy to throw Obama a curve and watch himself screw himself into the dirt trying to hit it, we&#039;re gonna have a long and entertaining three and a half years. And remember, this was his SIGNATURE INITIATIVE! It&#039;s like watching a batter strike out with the bases loaded and two outs in the bottom of the ninth in the World Series because a butterfly caught his eye. Remember the first basemen who blew the world series by letting a ball go through his legs? That&#039;s OBAMA!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;. and one more point. This not only demonstrates fundamental inexperience as an executive who is actually held accountable for his statements (as opposed to a Senator or community organizer who can say whatever pops into their heads), this demonstrates a really fundamental political incompetence. This whole thing erupted at Obama&#8217;s healthcare political theater. Obama has essentially bet his Presidency on passing health care, and he did not keep his eye on THAT ball. Any sufficiently politically savvy person in his shoes when asked that question SHOULD have said, &#8220;Thanks for that question, but tonight I&#8217;m dealing with health care. Health care is the most important issue on the table right now. Do you have a question about health care?&#8221;</p>
<p>The result was that for the next three or four days instead of stories about Obama&#8217;s health care initiative and how it&#8217;s going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, we get stories, editorials, interviews, etc. on the GatesGate thing.</p>
<p>In politics this is known as &#8220;losing control of the narrative.&#8221;</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s this easy to throw Obama a curve and watch himself screw himself into the dirt trying to hit it, we&#8217;re gonna have a long and entertaining three and a half years. And remember, this was his SIGNATURE INITIATIVE! It&#8217;s like watching a batter strike out with the bases loaded and two outs in the bottom of the ninth in the World Series because a butterfly caught his eye. Remember the first basemen who blew the world series by letting a ball go through his legs? That&#8217;s OBAMA!!!</p>
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		<title>By: CosmicConservative</title>
		<link>http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174744</link>
		<dc:creator>CosmicConservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 20:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deanesmay.com/2009/07/23/gatesgate/#comment-174744</guid>
		<description>Paul, as I said above, THIS is the Obama that I and others warned this country about. He is in way over his head. He has cultivated an image that is completly at odds with reality. He is inexperienced, and this is one way that it shows. This is the sort of thing ANY exectutive at ANY level learns very early, you DON&#039;T MAKE PUBLIC STATEMENTS IF YOU DON&quot;T KNOW THE FACTS.

This is the sort of thing I have been taught in my corporate management classes. It has been pounded into my brain. &quot;We are investigating the issue and will have a response at the appropriate time.&quot; Etc. This is the sort of reaction that should be knee-jerk programmed into any true executive.

But it&#039;s worse. He not only spouts off at the mouth inappropriately, but HE CHOOSES THE WRONG SIDES! He is this nations CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, and he just made a public statement that law enforcement in this country is ROUTINELY RACIST. If he HAD to make ANY statement, he should have sided with the POLICE first, NOT the accused. Who you side with in a debate says a whole lot about you as a person, and what this says is that Obama is far, far from a &quot;post-racial&quot; President. In fact it reveals that he has racial issues of his own.

As if that&#039;s not bad enough, when people CRITICIZE HIS STUPIDITY, he BLAMES THE PRESS for &quot;fixating&quot; on his comments. Now he&#039;s not only inexperienced and demonstrating poor judgment, now he&#039;s just WHINING because the press, for once, is not fawning all over him.

I keep saying, this is bad for Obama. Much worse than he realizes.

But I&#039;m enjoying the heck out of it. It is my opinion that Obama has repeatedly showed a lack of understanding of the first rule of holes. Once he&#039;s in one, he just asks for bigger shovels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, as I said above, THIS is the Obama that I and others warned this country about. He is in way over his head. He has cultivated an image that is completly at odds with reality. He is inexperienced, and this is one way that it shows. This is the sort of thing ANY exectutive at ANY level learns very early, you DON&#8217;T MAKE PUBLIC STATEMENTS IF YOU DON&#8221;T KNOW THE FACTS.</p>
<p>This is the sort of thing I have been taught in my corporate management classes. It has been pounded into my brain. &#8220;We are investigating the issue and will have a response at the appropriate time.&#8221; Etc. This is the sort of reaction that should be knee-jerk programmed into any true executive.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s worse. He not only spouts off at the mouth inappropriately, but HE CHOOSES THE WRONG SIDES! He is this nations CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, and he just made a public statement that law enforcement in this country is ROUTINELY RACIST. If he HAD to make ANY statement, he should have sided with the POLICE first, NOT the accused. Who you side with in a debate says a whole lot about you as a person, and what this says is that Obama is far, far from a &#8220;post-racial&#8221; President. In fact it reveals that he has racial issues of his own.</p>
<p>As if that&#8217;s not bad enough, when people CRITICIZE HIS STUPIDITY, he BLAMES THE PRESS for &#8220;fixating&#8221; on his comments. Now he&#8217;s not only inexperienced and demonstrating poor judgment, now he&#8217;s just WHINING because the press, for once, is not fawning all over him.</p>
<p>I keep saying, this is bad for Obama. Much worse than he realizes.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m enjoying the heck out of it. It is my opinion that Obama has repeatedly showed a lack of understanding of the first rule of holes. Once he&#8217;s in one, he just asks for bigger shovels.</p>
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