This might sound overly critcal but my first thought on hearing about this was: how in the hell did so many people get shot on a military base before they took out the shooter? I assume these were trained soldiers.
Are they all unarmed? If so why?
Almost no one is armed unless they’re out training (in which case they wouldn’t be at the main part of the base), or an MP. Or on guard duty, but those guys are usually sleeping during the day for walking their post during the night.
The big story here is going to be how this guy fell through the cracks. He’s been spouting jihadist nonsense for some time, and was under investigation, but apparently that investigation wasn’t proceeding quickly enough.
I’m actually relieved that he’s still alive. We ought to be able to learn a lot from him about how to catch this kind of thing earlier, if he survives and is able to communicate.
This incident sounds like the motion picture Full Metal Jacket brought to life. Or maybe ‘brought to death’ would be a better descriptive term. When I was a young US Army reservist on active duty at Camp Atterbury, Indiana and Fort Carson, Colorado during 1953-1955, every effort was made to keep live ammunition out of the hands of enlisted personnel except, as JohnW suggests, for those on guard duty or serving as military policemen, or in controlled live-fire exercises out on one or another of the gunranges. I’m not certain if these rules applied also to commissioned officers.
On the other hand, such rules didn’t stop an idiotic trainee whom I knew, who got hold of a live detonator from a hand grenade, then laughingly set it off close enough to me to necessitate a tetanus innoculation because the explosion punctured a small hole in my leg near one of my knees.
I don’t want to blast off into religion-related generalizations about this incident; or at least not until the military has been able to investigate the incident further, including questioning of the alleged killer, who apparently survived the mayhem he and his fellow shooters caused.
Nor do I want to get into an argument that winds up insulting any other contributing editors or commenters on this blogsite, including threats of violence. As an old-time commenter on Dean’s World, I have a vested interest in helping to keep it alive and healthy. That requires some self-restraint on the part of everybody.
Maybe the guy had mental problems, maybe not. I think it’s too early to tell. If he did, you would think as a psychiatrist himself, he would have raised his hand and said “I think I need some help.” But I guess it’s possible for some folks to get so delusional they aren’t even aware that they are having issues.
I do think it’s wrong to jump to the conclusion at this point that it was an act of jihad in the name of Islam. The kids that shot up Columbine weren’t motivated by Islam. The VA Tech shooter wasn’t motivated by Islam. The guy that shot up the Pittsburgh health club wasn’t motivated by Islam.
That being said, if a person is unstable, and some sects within his religion believe martyrdom is a path to heaven, then his religious beliefs could certainly be a factor in actually carrying out such a rampage.
It’s true that there are lunatics of all stripes, and one can’t hold any philosophy or religion to account for what a few crazy people do in their name. OTOH, some philosophies and religions are more attractive to violent lunatics than others…
Aziz, I certainly agree with what Pejman says there. But let’s not pretend that Hasan was provoked by something other than his particular version of Islam and his hatred for America.
The guy was a traitor in the ranks. It’s not a knock on Islam or the wonderful Muslilms around the globe to say that.
He’s a mass murderer. The question of “why” he did it, is not of preeminent importance. The temptation to blame all Muslims should be restrained. But, the temptation to play Muslim defense attorney should also be restrained.
Fact — He was Muslim
Fact – He was slated to go to Afghanistan
Fact – He wrote and spoke some immflammatory stuff about the WoT
Op — Probably, a culture of political correctness prevented anyone in the Army from doing anything to him
Possible Fact — He screamed “Allahu Akbar” why murdering innocent people.
Conclusion: Watch out for highly strung nuts in the Army, some (not all) are Muslims.
One thing about this murderous event bothers me greatly.
All the initial news reports from Fort Hood indicated there were three gunmen, and that only one, Major Allahu Akbar himself, had been shot dead, but that the other two shooters had been taken alive.
But I have not seen word one about those other two shooters since yesterday. Where did they float off to?
One shooter indicates a deranged killer. Three acting together indicates a preplanned conspiracy. Which would have much more deadly implications for the US armed forces, our country as a whole, and for relations of Americans with Islam and the Arabs, in this country and perhaps in the world at large.
So where is the hue and cry for information about the other two shooters? Was that all a figment of the imagination of some of the wounded or would be victims?
Or did the Obama administration clamp down on that information and is now hiding it for polical reasons?
Do we all have a right to know the truth, or don’t we?
The initial reports indicate some confusion. Major Hasan was reported as dead by gunfire. It turns out that he is in fact alive, paralyzed due to a spinal bullet injury and on a respirator. The other two people were not clearly identified and one report I heard said, it was felt that the third individual may in fact had been the second person mis-identified by other witnesses. In any event, those two individuals were released later in the day by the military police who (apparently) found in them no link with this crime scenario.
Okay. I have no ready access to television other than at the fitness center where Stefi and I work out, and the early details disappeared by some time today. But your word is good enough for me.
Personally, I’m glad no such conspiracy is likely, from what you have written. The upshot would be greatly complicated for all of us in this country.
Fact – He got in trouble multiple times for aggressively proselytizing Islam to the people he was assigned to help, a grotesque violation of Medical ethics and trust.
A former classmate has said Hasan was a “vociferous opponent of the war” and “viewed the war against terror” as a “war against Islam.” Dr. Val Finnell, who attended a master’s in public health program in 2007-2008 at Uniformed Services University with Hasan, said he told classmates he was “a Muslim first and an American second.”
Muslims need to be especially careful with these kinds of people. Christian extremists generally become radical pacifists (Quakers, Amish) or engage in mass suicide (Jonestown, Branch Davidians, Heaven’s Gate). Muslim extremists tend to be violent chauvinists.
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This might sound overly critcal but my first thought on hearing about this was: how in the hell did so many people get shot on a military base before they took out the shooter? I assume these were trained soldiers.
Are they all unarmed? If so why?
Almost no one is armed unless they’re out training (in which case they wouldn’t be at the main part of the base), or an MP. Or on guard duty, but those guys are usually sleeping during the day for walking their post during the night.
The big story here is going to be how this guy fell through the cracks. He’s been spouting jihadist nonsense for some time, and was under investigation, but apparently that investigation wasn’t proceeding quickly enough.
I’m actually relieved that he’s still alive. We ought to be able to learn a lot from him about how to catch this kind of thing earlier, if he survives and is able to communicate.
This incident sounds like the motion picture Full Metal Jacket brought to life. Or maybe ‘brought to death’ would be a better descriptive term. When I was a young US Army reservist on active duty at Camp Atterbury, Indiana and Fort Carson, Colorado during 1953-1955, every effort was made to keep live ammunition out of the hands of enlisted personnel except, as JohnW suggests, for those on guard duty or serving as military policemen, or in controlled live-fire exercises out on one or another of the gunranges. I’m not certain if these rules applied also to commissioned officers.
On the other hand, such rules didn’t stop an idiotic trainee whom I knew, who got hold of a live detonator from a hand grenade, then laughingly set it off close enough to me to necessitate a tetanus innoculation because the explosion punctured a small hole in my leg near one of my knees.
I don’t want to blast off into religion-related generalizations about this incident; or at least not until the military has been able to investigate the incident further, including questioning of the alleged killer, who apparently survived the mayhem he and his fellow shooters caused.
Nor do I want to get into an argument that winds up insulting any other contributing editors or commenters on this blogsite, including threats of violence. As an old-time commenter on Dean’s World, I have a vested interest in helping to keep it alive and healthy. That requires some self-restraint on the part of everybody.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Sudden jihadi syndrome strikes again.
Except it wasn’t all that sudden.
Maybe the guy had mental problems, maybe not. I think it’s too early to tell. If he did, you would think as a psychiatrist himself, he would have raised his hand and said “I think I need some help.” But I guess it’s possible for some folks to get so delusional they aren’t even aware that they are having issues.
I do think it’s wrong to jump to the conclusion at this point that it was an act of jihad in the name of Islam. The kids that shot up Columbine weren’t motivated by Islam. The VA Tech shooter wasn’t motivated by Islam. The guy that shot up the Pittsburgh health club wasn’t motivated by Islam.
That being said, if a person is unstable, and some sects within his religion believe martyrdom is a path to heaven, then his religious beliefs could certainly be a factor in actually carrying out such a rampage.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572509,00.html
Even today, nearly 24 hours later, we still don’t know enough to make pronouncements. I’m just waiting for all the facts to fall into place.
I couldn’t figure out what I wanted to say. Fortunately, Michael Yon did. And John Eddy came pretty close.
Mark,
I didn’t see anything at the Fox site that changed my mind.
Disturbing.
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/87980/
It’s true that there are lunatics of all stripes, and one can’t hold any philosophy or religion to account for what a few crazy people do in their name. OTOH, some philosophies and religions are more attractive to violent lunatics than others…
Pejman says
http://newledger.com/2009/11/fort-hood/
Aziz, I certainly agree with what Pejman says there. But let’s not pretend that Hasan was provoked by something other than his particular version of Islam and his hatred for America.
The guy was a traitor in the ranks. It’s not a knock on Islam or the wonderful Muslilms around the globe to say that.
He’s a mass murderer. The question of “why” he did it, is not of preeminent importance. The temptation to blame all Muslims should be restrained. But, the temptation to play Muslim defense attorney should also be restrained.
Fact — He was Muslim
Fact – He was slated to go to Afghanistan
Fact – He wrote and spoke some immflammatory stuff about the WoT
Op — Probably, a culture of political correctness prevented anyone in the Army from doing anything to him
Possible Fact — He screamed “Allahu Akbar” why murdering innocent people.
Conclusion: Watch out for highly strung nuts in the Army, some (not all) are Muslims.
–HB
The question of “why” he did it, is not of preeminent importance.
And, apparently neither motive nor planned pre-meditation aren’t either.
(The firearms were surreptitiously smuggled into the base and were not Army issue weapons).
(And, he wasn’t a highly strung nut case but a calm career medical military officer in full possession of his intellectual and psychiatric faculties).
To be continued — pending more data input.
One thing about this murderous event bothers me greatly.
All the initial news reports from Fort Hood indicated there were three gunmen, and that only one, Major Allahu Akbar himself, had been shot dead, but that the other two shooters had been taken alive.
But I have not seen word one about those other two shooters since yesterday. Where did they float off to?
One shooter indicates a deranged killer. Three acting together indicates a preplanned conspiracy. Which would have much more deadly implications for the US armed forces, our country as a whole, and for relations of Americans with Islam and the Arabs, in this country and perhaps in the world at large.
So where is the hue and cry for information about the other two shooters? Was that all a figment of the imagination of some of the wounded or would be victims?
Or did the Obama administration clamp down on that information and is now hiding it for polical reasons?
Do we all have a right to know the truth, or don’t we?
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Arnold,
As far as I can tell, the “three shooter” theory that spread around early on was just plain wrong.
I chalk it up to a fog of war reporting mistake.
The initial reports indicate some confusion. Major Hasan was reported as dead by gunfire. It turns out that he is in fact alive, paralyzed due to a spinal bullet injury and on a respirator. The other two people were not clearly identified and one report I heard said, it was felt that the third individual may in fact had been the second person mis-identified by other witnesses. In any event, those two individuals were released later in the day by the military police who (apparently) found in them no link with this crime scenario.
JM, McK,
Okay. I have no ready access to television other than at the fitness center where Stefi and I work out, and the early details disappeared by some time today. But your word is good enough for me.
Personally, I’m glad no such conspiracy is likely, from what you have written. The upshot would be greatly complicated for all of us in this country.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Hank,
You missed one:
Fact – He got in trouble multiple times for aggressively proselytizing Islam to the people he was assigned to help, a grotesque violation of Medical ethics and trust.
A former classmate has said Hasan was a “vociferous opponent of the war” and “viewed the war against terror” as a “war against Islam.” Dr. Val Finnell, who attended a master’s in public health program in 2007-2008 at Uniformed Services University with Hasan, said he told classmates he was “a Muslim first and an American second.”
Muslims need to be especially careful with these kinds of people. Christian extremists generally become radical pacifists (Quakers, Amish) or engage in mass suicide (Jonestown, Branch Davidians, Heaven’s Gate). Muslim extremists tend to be violent chauvinists.
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