This is a very complicated place, made no less complex by my own cultural heritage and purposes in coming here. I have tried to lay out some initial thoughts about being in India again after nearly 15 years.
Defending the liberal tradition in history, science, and philosophy.
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From what others tell me about the stark realities of the duality of social classes in modern India, your tour description neither overplays or underplays anything. By the way, when anyone talks about social class differences in modern India, should we be using the term “caste”? I understand the caste structure is still alive and strong in hindu culture. I am not certain what role is played by caste in indian Islam, if any.
In any case, it sounds like the poorest resident of any of America’s black urban ghettos live far better than the street people of Mumbai. What’s your take on that?
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When you get back to Madison, and we can find a day when I don’t have to shovel out a 500-ft long steep-slope driveway to get there myself, I’d like to get together with you and listen to your take on a couple of islamic organizations in this country that Act for America has tagged as the bad-ass side of militant Islam. One of these is Jizb ut-Tahrir. The other is Jamaat ul Fuqra. Jizb ut-Tahrir is described as wanting to set up a new sun’a kalifate to take the place of the Abbasid kalifate that Ghengis Khan’s grandson Hulagu put to eternal rest in Baghad in 1258, along with the Hashashin order and probably a lot else. I’m not sure what their ultimate intentions are for you shi’a folks, indian or otherwise. Jizb ut-Tahrir is just a name until I learn more about it. Anyway, if you want to talk about it over some Panera Bread stuff, I’ll shut up and listen to what you know. I’m learning in old age not to jump to instant conclusions.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
As an addendum to my first comment on this thread, I did some look-ups on Brigitte Gabriel, the young christian arab Lebanese woman who got driven out of Lebanon by attacking lebanese Muslims, was saved by the Israelis, came here as a refugee immigrant, and who later put together Act for America.
She doesn’t even try to deny that she’s an outright islamophobe, in contrast to a lot of other people who want to separate peaceful Islam from their jihadist and hateful cousins. But I think that in these investigations, it is best to listen to all sides.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
While Aziz has obvious firsthand knowledge I don’t, most of what I’ve read about the Caste system is that while it originates in certain Hindu sects (there is no one Hinduism), it became so pervasive that it simply became part of (almost) all parts of Indian society, affecting various Christian and Muslim groups in much the same way that racism affected various religious groups in the United States (see the “Mark of Cain” stuff). In other words, even though it had nothing to do with the religion at all, it was so embedded in the culture religious groups picked it up anyway.
I also understand that it’s tended to become greatly watered down in cosmopolitan urban areas, but it’s still there. But I’m sure Aziz would, again, know a lot more, so I’m as interested in the queston as you Arnold.
Dean,
I have begun using Aziz as a primary information for matters indian, islamic, madisonian, and UW-Madison hospitalish. If we get to play chess, and he whips my ass, I’ll unabashedly use him as an infosource concerning the Poonawalla Defense as well.
Everybody who falls into my social orbit — or me into theirs — gets put to work increasing my knowledge base.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
So what was wrong about calling it Bombay.
Now I’m going to have to burn all my 1940′s grammar school history books.
Go figure.
I think the speakers of Hindi call that city ‘Mumbai’ for the same reasons Israelis and some other Jews call their capital city “Yerushalayim’ and Arabs refer to it as ‘al-Quds’; and Russians refer to Moscow as “Moskva’; Italians refer to Rome as ‘Roma’; Germans refer to Munich, Nuremberg, Cologne and Vienna as Muenchen, Nurnberg, Koln and Wien; and Southerners refer to the battle of Bull Run as the ‘First Manassas’.
Different strokes for different folks.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Istanbul was Constantinople …
…Whose greek population for more than a millenium called it Konstantinopolis. (Latin lacking a “K”, the Roman founder of the city, the emperor Constantine, named it after himself and presumably with the Latinic spelling.) I know nothing about the turkish language, but I understand the literal meaning of the word Istanbul is “to the city”.
When are you due back in our county of ice roads and falling rain?
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
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